A Seif Bet - for those who still believe a word he, or AP, says

[LuckyMux]

Absolute Fraud – the Mark Seif angle. (LONG post – please don’t quote the whole thing)

It begins 20 months ago, with the following post at http://www.internettexasholdem.com/phpbb...as-vt34808.html, on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:05 pm:

[ QUOTE ]
Post subject: At Absolute Poker......I can't believe how low this was

I am still amazed and beyond disgusted at what I saw and heard very late last night/early in the morning at Absolute Poker...and I don't even know what to do about it. The irony of this happening the night after my "poker ethics" post is too much, also:

Anyone who has watched the 75/150 game there knows that Mark Seif (who is the site's signature pro and part-owner) has been extremely abusive lately of the other players when he's at the table.......always banning other players' chat in an instant and threatening account closure, etc. He has lost a lot a money at that 75 game (the resident pros consider him the big fish there) and it's been pretty obvious lately that it was starting to get to him more and more.

Anyway......stuckinpgh (my good friend Mike) is one of a handful of high-limit players who have managed to get under Mark's skin in recent weeks. It was evident that Seif was not fond of Mike and would tilt sometimes. Only this time, it turned out to be a lot worse than harmless trash talk.

Last night, Seif was actually having a good session for a few hours at the 75 table. Eventually the game mostly broke up, and it was just Seif and Mike heads up. After some see-saw action, Mike started to get the best of him again and was ahead maybe 4 or 5 k for the HU time, I'd say. At that point, Seif says something like "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down."

Play then started again......and I saw something that I never have before in all my on-line poker play: obvious manipulation. Every hand was a complete dissection based on whatever Mike was holding (third pair was capped by Seif if Mike was behind or bluffing, for example.) About 10 or 12 k was basically stolen in 15 minutes (over maybe 100 hands), and here's the kicker: he was so pissed and beyond rational thinking that he actually wanted Mike to know what was going on! For example, Mike had K9 on one hand and flopped a boat. Seif was first to act after the flop, and FOLDED OUT OF TURN just that time. I had heard that Seif was having some personal problems, but who would've ever guessed that he could be capable of this. Between that possibility and the abuse that he's taken from the pros (in chat, $ lost, and pride lost at the tables), he must've finally snapped and lowered himself THAT much to get some revenge. We were simply stunned, and all Mike could do at the time was leave the game and withdraw the rest of his money (which he did get already.)

I have never played in a game with Mark Seif myself (or ever said a word to him), so none of this information is based on anything personal between him and me. I'm only trying to help out a good friend here and to call some needed attention to what happened. If Seif is capable of this, then it's a scary thought to trust your money to that site. And to think I was just about to deposit to play the 75 game myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlike here on 2+2, AP actually responds to this post (note: this is long before the POTRIPPER incident proves that a super-user account, aka ‘God-mode’, does actually exist on AP and is used to defraud players):

[ QUOTE ]
I can assure everyone that there is absolutely no way that Mark Seif is able to see his opponent's hole cards, nor does he have any ability to manipulate the outcome of the games at Absolute Poker… The system at Absolute Poker is built in such a way that no one is able to access information on player hole cards in real time, and Mark is not an exception.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without any further evidence, the OP and friend don't really have anywhere to go with this, and the matter soon drops off the radar. Oddly, neither AP nor Mark Seif provides, or offers to provide, the hand histories which would clear BOTH their good names.

Seif doesn’t bother to keep his own HH either, but that’s okay, because according to AP’s license (Kahwanakee Gaming Commission rule 245), AP must keep hand history data for a minimum of five years – or face a $1000+ fine for each one it deletes.

This is what Stuckin has to say about that episode (as posted here on 2+2 recently), for all those who still think he ‘recants’ the story:

[ QUOTE ]
1. I changed my mind about quitting.
2. I play there every day.
3. I no longer play site owners hu for big stakes.
4. At this point I don't think I was cheated, if I was it probably wasn't the only time playing online.
5. I no longer play site owners hu for big stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark Seif has said he ‘owns a major stake’ in AP previously, and never corrects anyone about all these mentions of him still being a part-owner.

Fast forward to the POTRIPPER scandal. Again, there is the allegation that someone can see the hole cards on Absolute. On October 10, Seif allows 'someone' at AP (we are left to guess who) to post AP’s official response on his personal blog at Bluff. AP has investigated and come to the following conclusions:

[ QUOTE ]
"A ‘super-user’ account does not exist in our software… …The back-end of the Absolute Poker software prevents the possibility of any such feature."

[/ QUOTE ]

Then, the smoking gun emerges. POTRIPPER really did know what the hole cards were, thanks to ‘super-user’ account (#363) which has been around since the dawn of AP – so this is no ‘outside hacker’. Not only that, but the IP address of account #363 traces to the home of Scott Tom – the de facto boss of AP and close friend of fellow AP part-owner Mark Seif.

On October 17, another amazing statement is released via (part-owner) Mark Seif’s blog. With the stunning ‘new evidence’ of massive fraud (which, er… they had before anyone else did) AP is now concerned enough to call… Gaming Associates, who will investigate further.

Cast-iron evidence is clearly not enough for AP. There is still no admission of any wrongdoing whatsoever, not even of a security breach – and AP declares that Scott Tom has not been involved with the company for over a year. It also threatens legal action to all who dare question its integrity. The statement is signed ‘AP management’.

To date, Mark Seif has never revealed who actually sent him those two statements - which AP now acknowledges were the attempted covering-up by the fraudster/s themselves.

It’s around this time Mark Seif starts thinking about Feb 15, 2006. The next day, he releases his own statement on his blog. After basically repeating the same garbage as AP (“We should wait for more smoking guns”), he also says this:

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to a session I played two years ago heads-up on AP in the 75/150 game, against "stuckinpgh" (I believe that is the name) that has been the subject of some discussion, I won fair and square. I am 99.99% certain that I did NOT fold, when first to act (not facing a bet) on the flop when my opponent claims he flopped a full house. That is complete nonsense and I welcome anyone to try to disprove that. I believe my opponent has recanted his story and I am happy that he was man enough to do that because that is the truth.

I don't normally reply to or acknowledge such ridiculous claims, but in light of the current situation, I wanted to be unambiguously clear that I engaged in no wrong-doing whatsoever. I don't know what else to say other than what I have already said about that incident or the AP situation at this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rest of us know what he could say, and conspicuously doesn’t. The same thing that damned POTRIPPER and Scott Tom actually has the power to exonerate Mark Seif; hand histories.

Sadly for Mark, by the time he asks for them (using IM chat – almost as though he knows he’ll be posting the chat as ‘evidence’ on 2+2 later), it turns out his beloved, part-owned AP has illegally deleted those hand histories that would prove his innocence. Would you believe it!

In fact, it’s deleted all of them older than 2-6 months, depending on which AP employee you talk to. Any cheating before then – including by POTRIPPER, Scott Tom, AJ Green or even Mark Seif - cannot ever be proved.

At this point, Seif again threatens legal action against anyone who might think about defaming his good reputation, and goes on TV in the most ill-advised PR move since Nixon debated with JFK.

And, apparently, a ‘witch-hunt’ against him begins for Absolutely no reason.

[apefish]

In on the ground floor of something.

[ibluffoldladies]

Nice summary Lucky. This conversation is relevant.

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...t=all&vc=1
Hey guys, somebody posted this earlier but hasn't gotten any attention. 3/4 down the page it talks about Seif's supposed ownership stake in AP, as well as him comparing limit hold'em to doing heroine. Very interesting....

MARK SEIF:i dont need to do heroin
MARK SEIF:this is better
MARK SEIF:i live for being called a donk by 2 plus 2ers and NWP pros
MARK SEIF:for me this is work $200k not 20k
MARK SEIF:worth
MARK SEIF:seriously guys - all i do is give you money
MARK SEIF:be nice to the fishies\
MARK SEIF:i enjoy playin every hand and blowin 20k
MARK SEIF:i really do
MARK SEIF:just take the money and have some class
MARK SEIF:that's all we ask
MARK SEIF:i'm not the site rep
MARK SEIF:i am a mjor stake owner
MARK SEIF:this is my business
MARK SEIF:i want what's in AP's best interst - that's all
MARK SEIF:i dont care if i lose
STUCKINPGH:I've seen you rip off some big wins here too
MARK SEIF:i win occasionally but i really dont care about it
MARK SEIF:its much funner to just play evey hand and raise every stree
MARK SEIF:t
MARK SEIF:its my heroin


[/ QUOTE ]

[genius55]

we really do need those hand histories lol. I don't believe that AP deleted them, seems kinda fishy.

[highhustla]

Don't forget the part where he shows up here at 2+2 to "answer your questions and engage you in a meaningful discussion to try to figure things out"--but only lasts 3 posts before he runs off with his tail between his legs.

[Alobar]

*yawn*

[highhustla]

so if you're yawning, then you believe Seif?

You don't have a problem if he is friends with Scott Time, or a part-owner of AP?

[Synergistic Explosions]

The thing is, nobody who plays against Mark wants him to get in trouble for obvious reasons. So if the players want him to stay, those of us who don't play him should let it be.

[[Deleted User]]

lolseifaments

[mistere45]

To keep quiet about corruption because of monetary gain ... What makes that any better than any AP party involved in the cover-up??