Is Neo-Atheism The Way to Go? [Poll]

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That just isn't true. Many, many believers are very ecumenical. They believe in a divinity that is legitimately accessed through all sorts of religions.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does that make it untrue?
It's just a different claim of the traits of their god, just as any other believer claims they know theirs.


[/ QUOTE ]

The OP made a blanket statement that religionists do not tolerate difference, "it's their way or the highway," was his claim. In fact, many religionists do not believe their method is special, correct, or privileged in any way, it's simply the way they are used to worshiping.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't think their belief is correct but they believe it anyway? And these are the people I'm supposed to give respect to their ideas ( or them for holding them)? I seriously do have more respect/understanding for someone who sticks to believing those things they think are true, even the more wacko ones. The other approach is bold-faced self-delusion worse than normal intellectual dishonesty. It's openly admitting "I believe it because I want/need it to be true". No respect for that here.

are you sure they don't believe it's correct?
( I'm not questioning the polite/impolite, but the concept of which fantasies are more deserving of respect than other similar ones).

luckyme

[Bill Haywood]

[ QUOTE ]
They don't think their belief is correct but they believe it anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. They aren't exclusive at all. It's still God, whether it comes in a bottle or a can.

[ALLEN CONRAD]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the minor astrologist deserves more respect than the major one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. I think it better to be a little idiot than a giant idiot. If you spoke to someone who preached the gospel of astrology and tried to convince them is was dumb you would most likely have less success than if you talked to a random person who had just skimmed over horoscope.

This fact makes the person who is a minor astrologist due more respect that the major. And lets say you did talk to a person who read there horoscope and refused to acknowledge that it was all fantasy that person would then be promoted to major astrologist.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They don't think their belief is correct but they believe it anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. They aren't exclusive at all. It's still God, whether it comes in a bottle or a can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't questioning whether they believed their god was more wide-ranging than the Jehovah Witness one, I was questioning your statement that the attributes they believe their encompassing god has is not what they believe is true about him/it.
the 'they don't claim they're correct' part but believe it anyway.

luckyme

[Taraz]

I agree with Bill Haywood on pretty much every point he has made so far.

Many of you are acting like hardcore theists were well-educated and rational adults when their beliefs were formed. In fact, many theists were born into their religion or converted after major life trauma. It is often an integral part of how they understand and parse the world. I don't know the best way to handle these people or engage in debate with them, but I'm am fairly sure it is not ridicule and disdain. All that does is make the debate more contentious and forces people to dig their heels in.

Should we challenge their arguments? Most certainly.
Should we mock them? No. How does that solve anything?

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone wants to shove their religion down your throat, sure, be as rude as you personally feel you need to be. But don't pretend it's all in self-defense, when it clearly isn't. More often than any of you will admit, it is the theist blindsided by a rude, obnoxious attack by the atheist.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would argue that the reverse is more common. In many communities, atheists are simply shunned. Remember, in our country atheists are the ones people would NEVER vote into office. They're considered the least desireable class of people. Many of the theists on this board are fond of insisting that atheists have no morals.

There certainly are rude atheists. But I think its unfair to suggest they have any kind of monopoly or even lead in the field of rudeness.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> Of course. I think it better to be a little idiot than a giant idiot. </font>

This really gets to the heart of my post/question. To be honest, I'm not so sure... Sometimes, there's not much difference between being a little wrong and a lot wrong. The end result is the same and the degree to which an illogical path has brought on the erroneous result is irrevelant.

<font color="blue"> This fact makes the person who is a minor astrologist due more respect that the major. </font>

Again, why is this so? They are both on the same illogical path. It can be argued that giving *any* respect to the minor astrologist only strengthens the case of the major astrologist. It certainly give him a degree of credibility that he shouldn't have.

[Case Closed]

[ QUOTE ]
In this world, when you've lost your dignity, you've nothing else in my view.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks...now I have to watch V for Vendetta again.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> Should we mock them? No. How does that solve anything? </font>

This is what I'm trying to find out. But I think perhaps you are dismissing the effects of mocking and ridiculing too quickly. No one likes to be mocked or ridiculed. Take this example:

You're like me and have no fashion sense of your own. You see a shirt in a store that you're not sure about. The fact is, it will make you look ridiculous to other people. You show it to your friend/wife/acquaintence. Do you want an honest opinion? Do you want them to soft-play you and pander to your sensibilities? Or would you be less likely to buy it if they were brutally honest and mocked the shirt and laughed at the prospect of you buying it?

Let's not get caught up in semantics here. I'm not saying you shouldn't have a mind of your own. Of course, if you really like something you shouldn't care what others think. But assume there is a right or wrong decision to be made about this shirt. Assume the purchase is important (maybe it affects your chance for landing your dream job). You are in danger of making the wrong choice. What exchange is more likely to lead you in the right direction? "Hmm. I don't know. It's not my taste, but it's your decision.". Or... "Are you kidding me? LOL!! That looks ridiculous on you! Sure, go ahead and buy it if you want to look like an idiot!".

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care how stupid you think the beliefs they hold are, that's not the point. The point is to be a dignified human being. I have respect for some atheists, as well as some theists for the dignity and social skills they've shown, and I've also lost alot of respect for many otherwise intelligent atheists as well as quite a few theists for the childishness and pure lack of respect for others they've shown.

In this world, when you've lost your dignity, you've nothing else in my view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Around here it takes more of the form of " a man of his word" is all you really have. That takes in sincerity.
I'm a very quiet spoken person and I don't hand out insults or praise wantonly. When I say to a bridge partner, "well played" it actually means that they did something exceptional, not that they followed suit neatly. And they know that about me and seem to appreciate it.
When I say, "I respect his position" I intend it to mean that it has considerable merit and is well constructed even if personally not for me ( much as I do to non-extremist political left or right positions). To say I respect a belief in an ancient myth ( etc, etc) would render the concept vapid and it would be like complimenting my partner for not revoking.

I don't know how much disagreement there would be in our actual interactions but I certainly want my 'respect' to be respected. In the sense that if a friend says, "well, luckyme respects Guillies position" that it is taken as a positive comment on Guillies position.

luckyme