True NL beginner with elementary questions

Bona · #1 10-31-2007, 10:58 AM

I am a real neophyte at NL, having played only about 400 hands. I am not new to poker. I play limit and live limit poker quite a lot.

I am starting to learn NL at lowest possible stakes. I have read some, lurked some, and want to better understand a few elementary concepts. I intend to post a few hands with my thought process so any of you who are willing to take the trouble can correct either my play or my thinking or both. BTW I am taking the advice of a fellow 2'r and only buying in 100BB while I am playing with training wheels.

These two hands are pretty elementary I think. This first I usually don't play in limit but I felt like in NL I probably have enough implied odds to see the flop and play it fit or fold. What do you do with it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($4.98)
BB ($6.11)
UTG ($1.99)
UTG+1 ($3.15)
Hero ($2.49)
MP2 ($5.18)
MP3 ($2.86)
CO ($3.81)
Button ($0.72)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, 3 folds, Button raises to $0.12, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.08, Hero calls $0.08.

Flop: ($0.51) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets $0.1, UTG+1 calls $0.10, Hero folds

This hand is also about hand selection but also about bet sizing strategy.
My default preflop bet size is 4XBB sometimes plus with limpers. My position is good with this hand even though the hand is marginal so preflop I wanted to get HU with the limper. On the flop I thought I was ahead but very vulnerable so I attempted to take it down there. What say you?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown

MP2 ($4.97)
CO ($2.51)
Hero ($2.32)
SB ($5.13)
BB ($3.25)
UTG ($3.68)
MP1 ($0.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with

,

.
[color=#666666]3 folds, CO calls $0.02, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $0.1, [color=#666666]1 fold, BB calls $0.08, CO calls $0.08.

Flop: ($0.31)

,

[color=#0000FF](3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $0.3

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Eratosthenes · #2 10-31-2007, 11:16 AM

33 hand: calling the minraise is fine unless you think someone behind you is likely to make a big raise, in which case you need to think about who the raiser might be, his stack size, the likelihood that he will pay off if you hit a set, etc. After the button repops it, you are getting enough implied odds to call, closing the action.

A9 hand: Your idea to isolate the limper is a good one. The problem is that you are playing so low that opponents will call with hands they like regardless of your raise size. With that flop you need to put out a pot sized bet to protect your likely best, but vulnerable TPTK hand.

in general: Your post shows that you have an understanding of NL concepts. I suspect that you are playing so low that you are not really learning anything. Maybe you should consider moving up.

Bona · #3 10-31-2007, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the reply- Follow up question: What level do you think would give me a better chance to learn NL without getting me in over my head? In other words some competent players but not so aggro and tricky that I can't survive the learning curve? Bankroll is not the issue but lack of confidence is.

Gowardo · #4 10-31-2007, 11:51 AM

I would personally say IMHO that .25/.50 should be fine, as I see that as a level where players actually start to consider the consequences of their raises/calls etc.

Good luck

pzhon · #5 10-31-2007, 12:12 PM

If your goal is to win money later, playing for pennies (NL $2) is fine. Even at much higher levels, much of your profit will come from recognizing a few bad players with styles you learned to exploit while playing for pennies, and from not making mistakes you can eliminate from your game at NL $2.

At NL $2, there is a much wider range of win rates possible. You can win or lose 50 big blinds/100 hands. This wide range means that it takes much less time for improvements in your game to be reflected in your results.

Just don't get stuck there. Move up when you are crushing the game.

hockeyav · #6 10-31-2007, 12:17 PM

How about setting yourself with a side bankroll of $50 or so for NLHE. Treat it like you would if it was your only money on the site, and move up only when your bankroll allows.

raze · #7 10-31-2007, 12:42 PM

Hand 1 is perfect.

Hand 2 - isolating with A9 is very marginal as you put it, especially in micro-stakes where it may be very difficult to isolate anybody at all. Flop bet is perfect.

I think it's great that you are playing marginal edges, but if you start to lose (or make less than you thought you would), you have to try and recognize where your leaks are; these marginal spots may be costing you money.

Bona · #8 10-31-2007, 01:03 PM

That is an appealing concept. "Earn while I learn" is the approach I have been using at limit and that has worked out (so far [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

BTW I think I may have played with you for a little while in the Monday night pick up game from this forum? Now that you know I a real neophyte I'm sure you will take it easier on me nexttime.

jediandimaster · #9 10-31-2007, 01:16 PM

imo you should move up to at least 0,10/0,20. 0,25/0,5 would be better though if bankroll is not a problem.
at the pennylimits you are playing there is no way imo you can learn something, imo it could damage your game.

Altec · #10 10-31-2007, 01:54 PM

NL25 is a great place to get started