|
|
#11
06-13-2006, 11:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
Call the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL. 
|
|
#12
06-13-2006, 11:51 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'.
|
|
#13
06-13-2006, 11:51 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Call the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL. [/ QUOTE ] You're not going to ever get lots of money in there except in a situation like this. Hardly anything can call if you raise and shut out the field, and the pot is miniscule. Queens and flush draws will call either way, but something like A7o or 77, which might have called if you called, will fold if you raise. Seems like an okay spot to play slowly.
|
|
#14
06-13-2006, 11:53 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'. [/ QUOTE ] That axiom is old already and it doesn't apply here. We'll always get bets when he has a flush and PLEASE BE MORE RESULTS ORIENTED BY SAYING HE MIGHT HAVE AN OVERPAIR. You're almost never going to get action on this board either way - people aren't going to be 3-betting QJ here. Also I don't know why it's so bad that it looks like we have trip 5s. It's not like somebody in this game is going to bet/fold the turn with a queen here if we raise.
|
|
#15
06-13-2006, 12:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
If you wait and raise the turn your hand looks exactly like trip 5s. By raising the flop you hand range now includes single pairs of queens and thus we were able to get 3-bets in on the turn when a) he has the best queen b) an overpair c) a flush. In general, 'fastplaying is the new slowplaying'. [/ QUOTE ] yes lets shut out the SB and BB when they are drawing dead, smart.
|
|
#16
06-13-2006, 12:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] serious question, why raise the flop? [/ QUOTE ] Serious question, did you read the rest of the hand? [/ QUOTE ] wow result orientated much?
|
|
#17
06-13-2006, 12:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
PLEASE BE MORE RESULTS ORIENTED BY SAYING HE MIGHT HAVE AN OVERPAIR. [/ QUOTE ] I guess you missed the part where that was listed as PART OF A RANGE OF HANDS. Sure it is not a large component, but it is definately a fraction. [ QUOTE ] You're almost never going to get action on this board either way - people aren't going to be 3-betting QJ here. Also I don't know why it's so bad that it looks like we have trip 5s. It's not like somebody in this game is going to bet/fold the turn with a queen here if we raise. [/ QUOTE ] As far the rest of this, in general we get way more money from flush draws by raising this flop because we give them a chance to get 3-4 bets in on a big street if the get there, plus we often charge them an extra small bet when a draw checks the turn (yes we gain an 1 sb when we call the flop and raise the turn and he has a draw). Also, there is a good chance all pp's less than QQ will call us down to river, but will bet/fold the turn and thus by raising the flop with get 1.5 more bb's. If a Queen will never bet/fold the turn AND will never 3-bet the flop against us then I agree your line nets us an extra 1 sb. Given the whole of his hand range I think it is easy to see though that raising the flop is superior in that we stand to gain a ton more money from all other non top pair hands.
|
|
#18
06-13-2006, 12:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Call the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I dont agree. Raising the flop looks like a Q, while calling/raising the turn looks like you got tricky with a 5. Just bet out and get lots of $ in there, getting tricky is for NL. [/ QUOTE ] You're not going to ever get lots of money in there except in a situation like this. Hardly anything can call if you raise and shut out the field, and the pot is miniscule. Queens and flush draws will call either way, but something like A7o or 77, which might have called if you called, will fold if you raise. Seems like an okay spot to play slowly. [/ QUOTE ] Any hand that would bet early in the round like that has enough of a hand to call a raise and call you down. Any flush draw will probably cold call you too, and would be more likely to join in the action on the turn with the bigger pot to draw for. If A7 or 77 are being played by a nut, they will call you down. If its A7, you arent getting more on the turn by slowplaying the flop. If someone puts a SB in with 77, id say 70% of online players call the flop raise, and he would probably check-call the turn or check-fold anyway. I think there are many more situations where more money can be made by just betting it out. Not only that, but it makes playing against you much harder knowing that you will just go ahead and bet out with a monster. Raising this board also could mean a flush draw and could induce more action out of a good hand anyway. I just think that playing it fast minimizes tells and maximizes winning in most cases. Aggression with a hand in limit is never a bad play IMO. Not only does raising the flop get more money into the pot, it also doesnt do much to slow down action on the turn.
|
|
#19
06-13-2006, 12:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: This is why you don\'t slowplay quads.
[ QUOTE ]
yes lets shut out the SB and BB when they are drawing dead, smart. [/ QUOTE ] this is wrong as sb/bb will call 2 with almost the same frequency that they will call 1 bet, but keep slowplaying if you think it is best and have fun never making it past live 9/18.......
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
