catching perfect and folding

[electrical]

Villain is reasonably aggressive on 3rd, has fired and then made laydowns on later streets. He is not significantly tighter than the rest of the table, which is too loose, but not retarded.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $1, Bring-In $1.50 (converter)

Seat 1: $90.50
Seat 2: $100
Seat 3: $180.50
Seat 4: $231
Seat 5: $145.50
Seat 6: $99
Hero: $436.50
Seat 8: $98

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (7.90 SB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (4.95 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

Total pot: (4.95 BB - $49.50)

Interested in comments re: calling the re-raise on 3rd (seems like a fold, but note that (Ax)Q for villain means he sees all four Aces and he knows I don't have Aces -- maybe reason enough to fire back at me) and check-calling 4th to disguise the hand against probable (KK)Q or (xQ)Q.

The fold bummed me out, but if I was behind, the Queen meant I was way, way behind and drawing to running cards, a Four or the case Eight. Worse, none of those give me a lock!

Literally any other card in the deck would have allowed me to raise and get another bet in there, maybe even multiple bets since villain had shown aggression on two prior streets and likes his hand.

He may have started rolled, but since he had reason to suspect I didn't have Aces, playing split Queens fast makes the most sense.

I hate taking a hand to the river without being able to bet it with confidence, and folding seemed more prudent than making three more queasy calls, almost certainly unimproved.

This is either MUBS and weak or totally standard.

[MrBlueNose]

Why not check/raise 4th? Another heart can kill your action.

There's a chance that he has KK, or is being aggressive with 3 diamonds(or perhaps has the case A in the hole), but yeah I fold too as by the time all the bets go down(assuming he bets all way and we call down) we're getting 3.5-1 and just not good enough here.

[Andy B]

If you really think that split Queens is so likely that you feel compelled to lay down on fifth street, then you probably shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

"MUBS"?

[2461Badugi]

The ugly Full Tilt structure. Who came up with this nonsense anyway? $1.50 bringin??

On Stars, I'd just let him steal it. I'd definitely give thought to that here as well.

How do you feel about calling the completion and check-raising any unpairing fourth?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
The ugly Full Tilt structure. Who came up with this nonsense anyway? $1.50 bringin??

On Stars, I'd just let him steal it. I'd definitely give thought to that here as well.

How do you feel about calling the completion and check-raising any unpairing fourth?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeh, the Full Tilt ante at fairly low limits is big.

I don't like the raise on 3rd with another ace out. Even if you had aces and he has queens, he is not that big a dog with a dead ace. You are also about a 3-2 dog with your hand if he has queens. So I probably flat call. I could then determine later if I don't improve whether to fold, call down, or get aggressive.

I think 4th street is OK. These are only half bets, so deception is more valuable than getting a checkraise in.

I would probably just call him down when he pairs his door card. You are do have outs to improve and are probably not worse than 3-1 against trip Qs. You could be almost drawing dead if he has more than trips, but you also could be way ahead. With the uncertaintly about what villain has, I think you have odds to call down.

[cgrohman]

I agree. I also think the reraise on 3rd is poor. Will 2 other aces showing, he will not give you credit for AA. That may make a steal on his part more likely, but it also means he is not folding to your raise on 3rd street, and now your hand is fairly dead as well. So if I play this hand, I choose jus to call third.

I think I call down on 5th street onward because I checked 4th.

[Bartholow]

Guess I disagree with everyone here.

Your raise on 3rd should be standard, as he could really easily steal here with anything, looking at a doubly dead ace and two deuces to act. This is further backed up by your description of villain, even though or perhaps because he sounds decent. Now when he comes back over you, it usually means he actually has a hand, probably queens, even given your dead door. I'd still continue because your hand is concealed, he could be getting a little overly busty with a slightly weaker hand, and the pot is now big enough that I want to see 5th at least.

4th I probably play fast because he won't believe you and I play a lot of flushed doorcards fast. You don't want a heart to come and kill your action here, but just calling doesn't really prevent that.

On 5th, given his reraise on 3rd you have to give him credit for trip queens most of the time. The question is what is your equity vs. that hand, and how does it compare to your pot odds?

Given your dead cards, looks like you are pretty close to a 4-1 dog. Assuming you'll want to call the river just in case, your corrected odds to see showdown are 8-3, so even given some uncertainty that he actually has the trips I think 5th is a fold.

[Bill King]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really think that split Queens is so likely that you feel compelled to lay down on fifth street, then you probably shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

"MUBS"?

[/ QUOTE ]

not to mention he's basically never folding after showing the pair on the board.. this hand leaves you guessing quite a bit.

when i read it, i initially thought you were in the "ehh, i hope he has aces wired, and my set is good".. which is never a good feeling obviously.

In order of what I like to happen
1. fold
2. call (and possibly c/r 5th if he doesnt make the Q's on board)
3. raise (as played)

[electrical]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really think that split Queens is so likely that you feel compelled to lay down on fifth street, then you probably shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]
Next time I'll probably just call third. That raise/call got me in a pickle and made playing the rest of the hand harder.

[ QUOTE ]
"MUBS"?

[/ QUOTE ]
Monsters Under the Bed Syndrome.

[crabbypatty]

i cannot see why this is a bad fold. villian said " i have Q's and don't believe you have A's." now all you have to do is decide if he is an incredulous, crazy liar. just happens to be easier to get away from the hand though. nice play! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

i assume that you are looking for answers from specific posters on this question. cosidering almost every player i have ever seen would not muck this hand, which is wonderful when you have the Q's. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] don't you need to have approx 8:1 to call in this situation? even higher with dead cards, right?

just a side question: what do you do if you actually had the 4 flush on 4th?