2+2 Ask the PPA

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
Its quite obvious to me now that tpt ownership have their own agenda which is not completely aligned with the agenda of the poker playing community And while I cannot have any objections to it( who could fault Mason etal to look out for their personal interests), I do hope that more in the community are aware of the distinction and the power struggle, so we can make decisions that are in our best interests, rather than putting blind faith in places, it doesnt belong.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think just the opposite is true. You obviously don't know the history here. Through our efforts, the PPA has improved as an organization, but in my opinion, they have a long way to go.

MM

[MiltonFriedman]

The 2+2 business model is to attract traffic and sell ads. If Mason, theoretically, felt that a direct PPA poster would yield more traffic than would someone mucking about as a messenger, why would you think that is elitist or wrong ? You are getting lunch for free, you want to complain about the menu design ?

Now could you clarify something for me ? You think that PPA is "perhaps elistist, perhaps lazy, perhaps stupid....Who knows? But who cares? Thats not the point."

Dear Miss Manners, are you upset because Mason allegedly snubbed a supposedly grass-roots organization you now say is itself "perhaps elitist, perhaps lazy, perhaps stupid " ? Could you clarify your concern then ?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Were people who asked D$D some very pointed questions to feel him out being eltitist ? No.
...

...
I do support discussion of poker, politics and the legislative and it will never be a tea party if it is truly open and frank.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the journey wasn't always plesant, and took some measure of self control, getting to a good destination seems, at least for me as an INDIVIDUAL [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] it was worth the effort. One thing you can guarentee from 2+2 is passion about poker.

Effective political action requires both passion and a tough skin. Well at least a lasting effort.....

I had a brief conversation with John today involving mainly the timing of our meeting tomorrow. One thing became clear to me for that brief dialouge, he seems very aware that he will have to devote a good amount of effort to over comming past actions and lost opportunities if he is to be sucessful in implementing his "new" vision.

As I stated in my first post I have hope for the "new" PPA. But my hopes aren't always fufilled. I'm told I helped elect our current President twice, and the GOP would have not had control of the Senate at one point without my efforts. Look at how that turned out!

I do want to thank all who have posted comments to my posts. I don't mean to be rude to those that posted positive comments, but I want to especially thank those who were most negative.


D$D

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2+2 business model is to attract traffic and sell ads.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. We are mainly a book publishing company.

[ QUOTE ]
If Mason, theoretically, felt that a direct PPA poster would yield more traffic than would someone mucking about as a messenger, why would you think that is elitist or wrong ?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Our position concerning the PPA is neutral. We do have some issues with them and want to make sure, because of these issues, that they deal with us directly.

Best wishes,
Mason

[MiltonFriedman]

Hey, Mason, don't bother me with facts ... I am theorizing here.

(I've been wrong before, am wrong now, and will be wrong again in the future I am sure. That does not make you an elitist for pointing it out however.)

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 business model is to attract traffic and sell ads. If Mason, theoretically, felt that a direct PPA poster would yield more traffic than would someone mucking about as a messenger, why would you think that is elitist or wrong ? You are getting lunch for free, you want to complain about the menu design ?

Now could you clarify something for me ? You think that PPA is "perhaps elistist, perhaps lazy, perhaps stupid....Who knows? But who cares? Thats not the point."

Dear Miss Manners, are you upset because Mason allegedly snubbed a supposedly grass-roots organization you now say is itself "perhaps elitist, perhaps lazy, perhaps stupid " ? Could you clarify your concern then ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not upset that he "allegedly anubbed" the PPA. I'm upset that he asked me to not ask a question! (And I don't trust his intentions)

[sethypooh21]

I'm slightly disturbed by MM's first post as well. His objections and problems with PPA are well known (and, though I don't know enough of the underlying facts to evaluate, his major complaints re: conflicts of interest are at least plausible), and he quite rightly points out that PPA should have someone in this forum pretty regularly (of course, many online sites should have reps here more often then they do as well...)

But that said, as long as it's clear that D$D is not a rep of 2p2 (which is pretty blindingly obvious), what does it hurt us to submit questions to be answered by Pappas? He may give us self-serving, mealy-mouthed [censored], but so what? That tells us what we need to know just as would a substantive answer.

And Mason, as much as I appreciate your work both on the books and in providing us these forums, you aren't the boss of this community. You may own the site, and the rights to the individual posts, but I don't think it's appropriate to try and stifle a legitimate* and possibly useful line of communication between the members of this forum and the PPA.


* used advisedly

[CybrPunk]

[ QUOTE ]
No. Our position concerning the PPA is neutral. We do have some issues with them and want to make sure, because of these issues, that they deal with us directly.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to remind you that, just as D$D doesn't represent your organization, Two Plus Two doesn't represent the poker community as a whole. Attempting to corner PPA into these forums to address issues that you have with them is nonsensical. When I have problems with an organization the onus is on me to make an effort to contact them. Nobody is going to magically appear at my doorstep so that I can voice my concerns therefore I have to make that effort.

The PPA has forums of their own. By the same regard, they're free and you're more than welcome to sign up at their forums to express the concerns you have with their organization.

I personally see your request for people to not submit questions as a hindrance to the poker community as a whole. I have to wonder whether your original reply to D$D is fueled by selfish motives. From day one since UIGEA Two Plus Two hasn't expressed a desire to help the poker community with regard to the legislation. In fact, you came out directly and said that you're in the business of publishing books and not political lobbying. In my eyes, this is just another example of Two Plus Two hindering the progress needed here.

If you really want to help the poker community, take steps to try and open the communication channels. If that means signing up at their forums and making efforts to contact them, then so be it. I personally salute D$D, The Engineer, obg and various others who have put forth way more visible effort than any 'representative' of 2p2 has since the inception of PPA and UIGEA.

I see no harm in D$D bringing a list of questions from individuals, who happen to be members of these forums, and returning to these forums with answers for the individuals who want to ask them. I'm sure you can agree that, from an organizational standpoint, having one Q&A session that addresses a large number of issues is quite efficient. This could actually result in a great deal of useful information. Instead I fear that most of the posters here will see the red name suggesting not to send questions and, in the end, the poker community at large will be the ones who suffer.

[whangarei]

D$D: Here's a question I would like answered by Pappas: Does he intend to "fight back" against the NFL in its attempts to take away our freedom to play online poker? A boycott is preferred, but even an email message to its almost 700,000 members (I bet less than 10,000 are aware of the NFL's actions) would go a long way.

Also, does he intend to organize a more aggressive legislative contact drive. I am thinking a model based on MoveOn would be effective, where they email you the numbers of your representatives along with the message to deliver to them, and provide a link for you to click saying that you contacted them and allowing you to describe their response if any.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, does he intend to organize a more aggressive legislative contact drive. I am thinking a model based on MoveOn would be effective, where they email you the numbers of your representatives along with the message to deliver to them, and provide a link for you to click saying that you contacted them and allowing you to describe their response if any.

[/ QUOTE ]

They do have a process similar to this in action on their main page called "what you can do." If you follow the directions and complete the forms, they track your actions because they then sent me a thank you e-mail for being an "August Advocate."

In a previous campaign we used this information to gague activity, and often then followed up the inital personal e-mails with other information. In the 72 hour campaign a GOP grassroots effort this became the basis in part for selection of "72 hour Team Leaders" in some states.

I would hope that is they are using this activity response and tie it into TheEngineer's letters as well if they already don't they should. It is these types of automatic computer based that become really valuable.


D$D