Fourth Street Decision from Borgata 20/40 yesterday

[rubixxcube]

2 villians in this hand, On my left is Old Man(OM) he is a regular in this game and very loose passive. Frequently cold calling raises on 3rd or even 2 bets, he is the type that once he puts money in on a street he doesn't fold on that street. CIA is the other villian, he is new to the table, only his fourth hand(He is retired from homeland security) i know nothing about him.


a deuce brings it in for 5.
A queen calls.
CIA calls with 7 hearts.
Someone folds unimportant card.
Hero raises to 20 with (Q9)Q
OM calls 20 with 6 diamonds on board.
Bring in folds, queen limper folds.
CIA NOW RERAISES to 40.
Hero Calls, OM calls.
FIrst question, would you have reraised here? I didn't because OM i believe is calling and CIA will probably cap as he has just represented really strong.

The turn:
Hero: (Q9)Q5
OM: XX 66
CIA (XX) 78

OM bets out 40, CIA Calls, Hero ?

Edit: for those who didn't know, this is STUD HIGH only.

[Andy B]

Flat-calling first-round raises isn't the hideous sin that it is in limit hold'em. What do you do with a live three-flush in a multi-way pot?

The limp/raise by CIA should represent a big hand--big pair, roll-up, or a big three-flush. I'm not suggesting that you should fold to this raise, but I would exercise caution and I would take note of what this guy shows down.

Given your characterization of the old man, I'd say that there is a solid chance that he has trips. Given that CIA was able to limp/raise third, knowing that you probably had Queens, and was able to call fourth against a paired door card, he very likely has you beaten. There's an excellent chance that you're in third place. I think this is a pretty easy fold.

[GiantBuddha]

OM is loose so he's more likely to have called a raise cold with split sixes on third. He's passive so he's less likely to bet here without trips. What's worse, one of your queens is dead, so if you're behind (which you probably are) you have little chance of catching up. Fold. And take note of what they show down.

[SweetLuckyMe]

I don't like raising on 3rd after the limpers with the dead Q - especially known calling station limpers.

Considering the dead Q and the hand is now multi-way I suggest folding to the 3rd st re-raise. If you don't fold on 3rd you most definitely fold when the calling station pairs his door card on 4th.

[rubixxcube]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising on 3rd after the limpers with the dead Q - especially known calling station limpers.

Considering the dead Q and the hand is now multi-way I suggest folding to the 3rd st re-raise. If you don't fold on 3rd you most definitely fold when the calling station pairs his door card on 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand i have a dead Queen, but i still think a raise is acceptable here on 3rd st. There were 2 limps to me already, i assumed CIA would call the other Q limper has shown many times that he can limp fold, OM was behind me and was not in already when i raised.

I also think its proper to call the reraise.

Do others suggest limping in this spot or folding to the reraise on 3rd?

[GiantBuddha]

[ QUOTE ]
Do others suggest limping in this spot or folding to the reraise on 3rd?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, unless like two nines are dead, also. I would play very cautiously after the reraise, and part of that is folding fourth when things go to pot, which is what happened.

[electrical]

Knowing nothing about the way CIA has played big and small hands already, I would absolutely play on Third, and I would absolutely raise the first lap (though not the second). Before the Seven gets weird, I am most interested in that other Queen. If the other Queen plays you have a dead hand and a not-awesome kicker. I want to know now what's up with that Queen. Also, a compromised one-pair hand plays best in a small field, and a raise makes for a smaller field.

The LRR on Third is a gag I sometimes use to buy free cards on occasion, and since the Seven will probably be in position to take a free one on 4th and beyond, I wouldn't put him on a huge hand necessarily. If he has a big hand, rolled Sevens are more likely to be played this way than AA or KK, but I would have to consider drawing hands like Ace-high FD or a small suited 3-straight.

When the 5 and 6 die on Four and CIA catches an 8, yet he calls open Sixes anyway, it is still not impossible he has a drawing hand. If he has trip Sevens, he ought to be raising for value against the Sixes, but he doesn't. AA or KK in call-down wizard mode now much more likely than Trips.

As for the possibility that he is still drawing, consider that if he made a pair of Eights to go with his 3-flush, has an open-ender, or has a buried big pair, he would love it if you and your Queens would Eff-off so he only has to beat the OM, (and if the OM only has a 3-flush and Sixes, he's in a very good spot) but he didn't raise to kick you out because he didn't want to risk being raised by trips. It is reasonable that he may still be drawing.

At any rate, that's not rolled Sevens talking, or at least it doesn't sound like it.

If I could make CIA for a draw, I would be tempted to play on, since CIA's straight cards (and therefore also likely two-pair cards) are compromised. Without history and a good read, it remains that I'm a nit, and the paired door card triggers my nit reflex. I fold Fourth. Working through it decision-by-decision, I think it is closer than it seems at first glance.

[southerndog]

F - O - L- D.

Unless your lstream, in which case, they'll both be FOS and your hand will be good.

[Jeffage]

This is a definite fold in my opinion. Old man can easily have trips and at minimum has two pair. CIA has repped a large pocket pair with his limp re-raise. I'd just call it a day here personally.

Jeff

[JoeDimaggio]

Definite fold on 4th. Better spots to put another bet in than this and 1 of them almost always has you behind here if not both.