public service announcement regarding neteller

[FUJItheFISH]

please read the legislation forum regarding neteller's recent business decision. if you have money in neteller you shouldnt be worried that they will take your money and run but it might take awhile for a withdrawal or something.

[Tiburon]

Thanks for the heads-up. I've got some money in there and it's good to know what's going on.

[detruncate]

To summarize the latest developments as I understand them:

1) Neteller founders arrested a couple days ago. They no longer have any role in the company other than as shareholders, but in the complaint filed against them the prosecutor takes the position that Neteller's business constitutes knowingly and willfully participating in criminal activities since day 1. (I'm not a lawyer. By "participating in criminal activities" I simply mean "doing things that the prosecutor considers illegal." The point is that it's not the new law that's at issue, and therefore Neteller might be dragged into something similar even if they comply with any new regs.)

2) Some of Neteller's payment processors (intermediaries that help it move money around) were apparently named/identified in the complaint. Probably as a shot across their bow. And it seems to have worked: they appear to have cut Neteller off, causing serious delays and uncertainty regarding pending transactions. I'm confident that things will eventually be sorted out, but given the overwhelming volume of transactions that have been initiated in the last day or so it might take a while.

3) Neteller no longer allows US citizens to transfer funds to and from gambling sites. They have explicitly stated that accounts will not be closed and that you are free to use Neteller for (theoretical) non-gambling-related transactions + peer to peer transfers. US customers without an existing account are no longer able to open one. Their updated FAQ on the issue can be found here. Apparently, withdrawal is only possible via Neteller debit cards for US customers, and I wouldn't count on that changing (even if they find a new processor, people seem to believe that banks are likely to refuse to accept EFTs to/from Neteller when the new law comes into effect).

The bottom line is that your money is held in a segregated account and there doesn't seem to be much reason to worry about its safety. Neteller is solvent and will continue to serve their non-US customers as usual. They are also a publicly traded company that has a vested interest in finding their way through this as painlessly as possible. There might be some ongoing confusion re. pending transactions that didn't clear prior to the excrement hitting the air circulation device, especially in light of the apparent huge backlog of new, unprocessed transactions, but everything should eventually get sorted out without too much fuss.

So... other than having to find a new way to transfer pokering funds around if you're a US customer, there doesn't seem to be too much cause for concern. I say this as a non-US customer, but with what I consider to be a fairly large balance in my own Neteller account. I'd suggest patience.

As the esteemed Fuji implied, there's a honkin' big thread in Legislation on this topic if you feel compelled to read further.

Hope everyone comes through ok.

[bbbushu]

okay.

my first method of withdrawal was check - no longer allowed.

then neteller - no longer allowed.

what do the more esteemed posters think is the best way to move money now? this includes moving money off of, say, UB, and onto, say, FTP and/or withdrawing in a way that banks find decent.

thank you very much, i'm sort of lost by the whole deal.

bbbushu

[detruncate]

It's not clear how this is going to shake out. The sites have apparently lost their payment processors (ACHs) for electronic transactions and are exploring alternatives. Bodog has also apparently stopped issuing paper cheques (checks), claiming that they're not being honoured by US banks -- though it's unclear when this actually started and whether it's related to what's been happening in the last couple days or something specific to Bodog. The correspondence I've seen posted suggests that Stars and FTP at least are asserting that cheques are still a viable withdrawal method, and presumably they'll make a public statement if things change.

Hopefully the sites or a 3rd party can come up with a viable electronic alternative (if this is not all overblown), but it seems likely that it's going to get a whole lot more difficult for US residents to fund poker sites, let alone transfer between them. Not much you can do but wait and see.

The biggest issue with withdrawals would seem to be whether paper cheques go away. They've always been a solid fall back. Again, it's unclear whether it's just a Bodog thing or a bad sign of things to come. Always hard to know how much to read into things, and speculation abounds.

As usual, it comes down to how much risk you're willing to take. Given that moving money into sites is largely regarded as the biggest potential problem, it would seem to make sense to leave some money in your accounts if you plan to continue to play. It's unlikely that you're going to be completely unable to withdraw money (Western Union if nothing else), but it's not impossible, so take that into account if the amount is significant to you. This assumes that the sites are willing and able to process withdrawals at present -- I'd contact them first if you're thinking about pulling out... hopefully they'll at least send a helpful form letter in reply.

Best of luck.

[00Snitch]

this presents some nice money laundering opportunities for us aussies.

PM me, ill clean your money. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

Well it looks like I picked a great time to go on a $30k downswing! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
this presents some nice money laundering opportunities for us aussies.

PM me, ill clean your money. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. Don't believe the hype. Aussies are descended from criminals. Clearly an untrustworthy lot.

Go Canadian. All you have to worry about is self deferential humour and a massive inferiority complex that manifests itself in excessive politeness. Reasonable rates for my Micro peeps. Except the ones I don't like. You know who you are. Yes... I'm talking about you.

[nerdking]

I ground some serious mental grist at work last night regarding this whole Neteller deal and you know what I came up with? Nothing.

The only kind of financial transaction I've made from online poker rooms in the last six months has been to withdraw profits. That's it. Looking at some of the posts in the "sky is falling" forums, I came across an interesting point. Back in the early days of internet poker, when the random number generators were powered by a hamster wheel and some guy named Fred was the only technical support guy at Party Poker, players only had paper checks to cash out with. Then came Paypal and things were good. Then Paypal took off. Then came Neteller and things were good. Now Neteller has taken off and we're back to paper checks, so you know what? [censored] it. It's been 5 years and Pokerstars is still rocking it. Poker's got a Supreme Court decision to back up its claim that poker is a game of skill. [censored] the morality police. [censored] anyone who says that I'm going to "click my mouse and lose my house". I'm gonna keep grinding my roll up up up at the game I love and the Frists of the world can jump up my butt.

[00Snitch]

i would have thought that this would be quite serious for american players. if you cant cashout to neteller or a bnm bank. and im assuming bnm banks wont accept cheques from xyzPoker.com, how do you get money out?