Commerce 40 vs. Tongni - Page 2

surfdoc · #11 02-09-2007, 11:36 PM

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This feels a lot like AJs or another TT, something on that order. It could also be say 88 that figures the J filled in all your draws and is just ready to give it up. I think he probably gives you credit for a somewhat stronger hand than you actually have because that's a little bit of a loose peel with TT with a player still to act behind you.

Anyway, I'd bet as sort of a valuebluff and fire again on the river, expecting to get called down by something like AQ a lot but occasionally folding the AJs/TT type hand with the second barrel. There really aren't too many hands that should be check-raising here except perhaps the nut straight, since even KK minds getting free carded with the straight draw on the board. And I suspect that people are a little less likely to check-raise bluff when they don't have their chips in front of them. So I think this is a defensive check and I'd see if I couldn't exploit that. Plus, even if he does have say 88 it's worth something to fold a 2-outer, as I think that hand probably has to check-fold the river even if you pass on a turn bet.

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I am with you for most of this but I think you underestimate the frequency with which he checkraises this turn and bets the river with a worse hand. I also don't think getting a 2 outer to fold is very important at all.

A big part of this hand is based on my read that he wanted to play the hand as tricky as he possibly could and that my getting his AQ/AJ to fold by firing the turn and the river was going to happen close to never.

SA125 · #12 02-10-2007, 02:25 AM

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I am with you for most of this but I think you underestimate the frequency with which he checkraises this turn and bets the river with a worse hand. I also don't think getting a 2 outer to fold is very important at all.

A big part of this hand is based on my read that he wanted to play the hand as tricky as he possibly could and that my getting his AQ/AJ to fold by firing the turn and the river was going to happen close to never.

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Making a big deal out of playing a pot with a high limit player.

Joe Tall · #13 02-10-2007, 03:02 AM

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I am with you for most of this but I think you underestimate the frequency with which he checkraises this turn and bets the river with a worse hand. I also don't think getting a 2 outer to fold is very important at all.

A big part of this hand is based on my read that he wanted to play the hand as tricky as he possibly could and that my getting his AQ/AJ to fold by firing the turn and the river was going to happen close to never.

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Making a big deal out of playing a pot with a high limit player.

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Considering surfdoc has played up to 200/400; you once again have made a foolish post.

surfdoc · #14 02-10-2007, 03:46 AM

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I am with you for most of this but I think you underestimate the frequency with which he checkraises this turn and bets the river with a worse hand. I also don't think getting a 2 outer to fold is very important at all.

A big part of this hand is based on my read that he wanted to play the hand as tricky as he possibly could and that my getting his AQ/AJ to fold by firing the turn and the river was going to happen close to never.

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Making a big deal out of playing a pot with a high limit player.

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I think it is a pretty important part of the hand. Many of us still have things to learn and adjusting to a player who is playing much lower than his usual stakes is an important concept. I realize that a guy like you with such a deep understanding of the game already has this nailed down but there are plenty of lurkers and posters who haven't played at stakes where a very tough and skilled player came and joined them.

elindauer · #15 02-10-2007, 05:07 AM

I think this is a super-easy turn check. easy river check unimproved as well. do you really expect to be called by worse on this board? Seems very unlikely.

If he bets into you on the river, then you have a decision. Getting, what, 7:1 though, it's pretty close. Somebody playing far below his normal limit will show you some random cards at times.

SA125 · #16 02-10-2007, 02:21 PM

I'm sorry surf. I don't even remember posting that. I was over served last night for the first time since I can't remember and made the same old mistake of deciding to post on this forum when drunk. I sincerely apologize.

surfdoc · #17 02-10-2007, 07:27 PM

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I'm sorry surf. I don't even remember posting that. I was over served last night for the first time since I can't remember and made the same old mistake of deciding to post on this forum when drunk. I sincerely apologize.

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Now worries man. I remember you going apeshit once before on the forum kinda out of nowhere so I assumed it was just another random thing where some button got pushed. I have pretty thick skin. Some people get angry and violent when they drink. I am not saying for sure that you are one of those people or judging you in any way but if that is the case you may want to look into getting some help.

surfdoc · #18 02-11-2007, 08:43 PM

I checked the turn. The river bricked. I was going to beat him into the pot if he bet but he checked. I checked behind but really wonder if there is value in a bet to get paid off by the hand he had (77) or to get bluffraised and possibly earn two bets. Folding was not an option.

DeathDonkey · #19 02-12-2007, 12:03 AM

Everyone needs to realize Tony could have 72o here. Still I check here but value bet the river.

-DeathDonkey

Entity · #20 02-12-2007, 01:49 AM

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Everyone needs to realize Tony could have 72o here. Still I check here but value bet the river.

-DeathDonkey

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The river isn't a value bet. It's a bet to induce a bluff checkraise. And even then I don't think it has more value than checking behind (that is so say, I think bet-folding has a higher negative expectation than bet-calling but checking behind is ahead of both with an expectation of 0).

Rob