(Lower) Limit Holdem Books?

[jeffnc]

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I don't shill SSH at all. I do happen to think it's the best limit book even written but I certainly suggest other books when I think it's appropriate.

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That's exactly how I feel about ITH, so if you're not shilling I'm not shilling :-)

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You just say to get ITH regardless of game conditions.

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ITH is appropriate for virtually all game conditions, or is the closest book that exists. The strategies very certainly will crush low limit live games. Actually, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any discrepancies in advice between the 2 books, when comparing apples to apples.

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In this thread the OP wants a book for low stakes live games. Is that not specifically what SSH is aimed at?

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Well the OP didn't state live, but I assume he means live. To answer your question, yes and no. To be real nitty about it, no. The book is for very loose games where the players are bad and go too far with their hands. That, precisely, is what the book is aimed at. Low limit live games usually, but not always, fill the bill. Higher limit live games and occasional live games (usually micro limits) also fill the bill.

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Most of the concepts are the same in both books. I think if you took out all the examples for each book and just looked at the text that they would be eerily similiar. Of course we still have the issue or too many bad examples in ITH. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]?

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Agreed, except for the last part. Now that I have the book back I'd be happy to check your examples.

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Some of the advice is just really weird though.... stuff like how he suggests that sometimes when you have QQ in late position against three or four callers you should just limp. Do you honestly think that is right? Do you do in practice?

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No, I don't think I ever do that. If it's in the book I'd like to see the context. Hilger made an effort to make some specific suggestions to beginners that are not optimal plays, but are easier to play until your post-flop skills improve. This might come under that category. It's difficult for beginners to play when a K flops, for example.

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And I agree that it will help people in most game conditions (but not all... I wouldn't want to tackle say medium to high 6max game with just this book)

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OK I grant yout that. I take for granted we are talking about full ring all the time, and I shouldn't.

[jeffnc]

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As an observation I noticed the Limit play at my local casino (Foxwoods) was dramatically different from the play at the same stakes when I was in Vegas in August.. for starters at a full ring game at foxwoods its over 50% people hooked up to oxygen machines wearing diapers.. a few guys in their 40s and 50s wearing POW MIA hats and Im usually surprised if I see someone under 30. The ring games in Vegas on the end of the strip (MGM - Luxor and the casinos in between) were 40s and down.. Im not sure what the difference is but I know I cashed in Vegas and I usually lose my stack at Foxwoods. Thoughts?

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Sounds like the Foxwoods players are typical old stud players. The play will be tighter, nittier, and weaker. Ironically, some of the advice in SSH will actually be good for these games, but as a beginner it would be tough to see why. Some of these guys think stud is a thinking man's game and Holdem is mostly luck (they will even tell you this as they cold call your raise with their dominated KTo.)

The game is easily beatable but not as much fun as looser games IMO. And you generally won't take down huge profits or big pots. (Easily beatable doesn't mean hugely beatable.) The rake really hurts you in a game like this at $2/4.

[pig4bill]

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If you're playing live and you're playing limits at or below something like 20/40, SSHE is applicable to the game conditions you'll find. In other words, if you're playing in games where theres a lot of limping, overlimping, preflop cold calling and 4+ person pots, SSHE offers good advice for these playing conditions.

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Are there such games over 2/4 any more? In the Bay area and in Vegas these days I find this kind of game to be rare even in 3/6. There seems to almost always be a raise and often a 3-bet.

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(Side note: I completely agree with jeffnc's well stated commentary on SSHE.) Just bear in mind that nearly all games, including live, are generally tougher and more aggressive than the conditions assumed in SSHE.

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Total agreement from me as well. SSHE seems to have lost much of it's relevance. Time for someone to write How To Beat Tough Low Limit Games.

[jeffnc]

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Are there such games over 2/4 any more? In the Bay area and in Vegas these days I find this kind of game to be rare even in 3/6.

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Live, I find soft loose games quite common.

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SSHE seems to have lost much of it's relevance. Time for someone to write How To Beat Tough Low Limit Games.

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Yes! But mostly for online play. Having said that, ITH would be your best bet for full ring play online at lower limits.

[pig4bill]

I mentioned two physical locations, where those "soft" games are disappearing fast. I hardly ever play online, but I could still use such a book.

[YertleTurtle]

I don't think soft games are disappearing in SF. I played in a soft 20/40 game last week.

YT

[jfk]

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If you're playing live and you're playing limits at or below something like 20/40, SSHE is applicable to the game conditions you'll find. In other words, if you're playing in games where theres a lot of limping, overlimping, preflop cold calling and 4+ person pots, SSHE offers good advice for these playing conditions.

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Are there such games over 2/4 any more? In the Bay area and in Vegas these days I find this kind of game to be rare even in 3/6. There seems to almost always be a raise and often a 3-bet.

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The aggression may have ramped up a little, but there are plenty of very loose mid-limit games to be found around the Bay. You can see plenty of 6+ to the flop hands. It seems like raised pots generally promote rather than retard looseness.

I can't speak to the 2/4 or 3/6 playing conditions.

[pig4bill]

Loose, but aggressive loose. Not like the limping, overlimping as you described earlier.

[Gauge]

Just wanted to leave some feedback. Started reading SSHE when it came in.. Ive been taking notes, reading and rereading sections. I started playing microstakes to get used to doing the math and what not and after all that I finally took my game to the casino and posted a winning session. So.. i just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and pointing me in the right direction.

Oh and before someone wastes the time typing it, I do realize one winning session does not make me a pro and does not mean I have nothing left to learn [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]