fold QQ pre?, 2/4 150 BBs deep

[LucidDream]

OP posted the range he assigned him based on a read. that's all i know and all i can know since i don't know who the villain is.

i can't just go around and give villain a wider range just because i feel like it.

it's a fold based on OP's read

[jamiezig]

obv. i'm giving him the slimmest of ranges. sure, the other QQ is there. i think the size of the 4bet led me to assign the tight range (and 150 bb deep, plus him reraising after i raise his utg open). do you guys think i'm being overly cautious? what range would you assign a 23/18 who in the past you generally have shown the goods to, and here, early on in a session, you haven't yet tangled with or 3 bet?

i was thinking dump now if i'm not in a variance kinda mood or call and fold A/K on flop, shove if unders. i figured a shove essentially let's him play perfect w/AK. good? bad?

[VitoT]

for sure if he is holding AK and not facing A/K on the flop he is in bad spot, and it's very very likely that's exactly what he has. but the thing is if u playing againts someone and always puts him on AA/KK it's not the best thing to do, and if u have KK do u ever fold here ? if not, u might face AA also, and yes, it will happen, and then what ?

[Unknown Soldier]

i'd fold in a vacuum and with your image.

3b certainly does not mean you have to felt.

[Kala1928]

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There is an argument that if you didn't want to get it all-in here, you should not have 3-bet in the first place.

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no there isn't.....

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raising for information is bad mkay

[Demogorgon]

Def fold considering positions and image.

Kala1928:
He can 3bet because he beats his opening and calling range and then fold because he's behind his 4bet range...

[Kala1928]

[ QUOTE ]
Def fold considering positions and image.

Kala1928:
He can 3bet because he beats his opening and calling range and then fold because he's behind his 4bet range...

[/ QUOTE ]

One could argue that there is no value in 3betting if his UTG open-range is so tight.
He will not just call here often because he is oop, he will just fold or 4bet and since he raised from UTG we will be forced to fold to the 4bet which makes 3betting (and folding) silly. And if he is any good he could (correctly) 4bet you with pretty much everything because he knows this too, especially if its the first time around.
If the plan is to 3bet and then fold if he doesn't just fold thats pretty much what raising for info means.

[Demogorgon]

The plan is to 3bet for value & protection because we are ahead of of his opening range and not let people in behind cheaply. If his range is 22+ QJs+ KQo+ we want to raise him and he might, often incorrectly, call with a decent part of that range. And I really doubt he will 4bet light very often here. Also notice that we are 150 deep.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
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There is an argument that if you didn't want to get it all-in here, you should not have 3-bet in the first place.

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no there isn't.....

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Yes there is.

Seriously, this reply is idiotic. You can debate the merits, but you can't say an argument "doesn't exist".

[Demogorgon]

Please elaborate why the argument is valid. It sounds like youre promoting either 3-betting to get all in 100% of the time or setmine vs a 22/18 opener?