Monotone flop deep in the 3R

[Nate.]

[ QUOTE ]
INteresting, can you explain why you would move in here Nate?

This is one of those gutsy shoves I dont quite understand, and hope someone can enlighten me.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have too much hand to be check-folding. Betting and folding to a raise will be bad (or at least close) against all but the very weakest of players. If we bet and are called, folding a blank turn will, again, be bad against all but the weakest. Meanwhile, all sorts of things have odds to call a flop bet, and as the bet grows larger and larger, we're not losing much if any action from hands we want to call (that is, not many hands [that we want to call] will call 300K but not 900K).

Therefore we should maximize fold equity and move in -- it is, after all, only twice the pot.

--Nate

I really feel icky about just shoving. What exactly does that accomplish? He calls with QJ/AQ/KQ/KK/AA and folds everything we're beating.

I wouldn't mind checking the flop and:

1) shoving if he bets
2) calling a shove
3) leading a non diamond or K turn with the plan to go to felt
4) check folding a diamond turn

Thoughts?

[Nate.]

Kramer --

The problem with those lines is that they will commit all sorts of hands against us that we would prefer fold (this includes tons of hands with lone diamonds).

His range is strange here: so many of his hands either crush us, are crushed by us, or are roughly 50/50. Usually there are more shades of gray. We obviously want to fold the 50/50 hands. The hands we crush are unlikely to give us action no matter what (one traditional reason for c-betting gone), we can fold at least some of the 50/50 hands, and there is no way we can feel comfortable mucking this hand when there is only twice the pot behind.

--Nate

[Nate.]

Kramer --

One more thing. You said "I really feel icky..."

I felt icky too, but after I thought it through I was pretty sure the icky play was the best play. That's one reason I'm posting this hand. The other, obviously, is that I want to see if I'm missing some better line.

--Nate

[ QUOTE ]
Kramer --

The problem with those lines is that they will commit all sorts of hands against us that we would prefer fold (this includes tons of hands with lone diamonds).

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this and I decided that any lone diamond that would call a CR would also call an open push.

I assume your reasoning for the open push is it represents the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] with no pair and gets calls from worse pairs and folds out any medium drawing diamonds?

[Requin]

Do you think he'd call a small cbet of like 150K with red tens, nines or eights?

[Nate.]

Kramer --

I think some lone diamonds will fold to the push. And yes, if he decides I have the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] he will often react badly.

Requin --

Yes, I think he will.

--Nate

[Requin]

I'd probably just c/f.

[Nate.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably just c/f.

[/ QUOTE ]

Requin --

I think this is burning money, especially since he didn't reraise me preflop.

--Nate

[skier_5]

I might check/call or c/f here, but I think c/shoving and bet/calling are all better than simply shoving here.