My rebuttal to Mark Seif on RawVegas.TV

[LuckyMux]

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My guess is they will miraculously find the HHs after they have time to doctor them up so that Seif can be cleared. They are going through all the hands that didn't go to showdown and inserting hole cards that might make some sense.

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Had they been quick enough, and known exactly what HH nobody else has kept... maybe that would work. It's way too late now, though.

AP has already said the HH don't exist and given not one, but TWO pathetic excuses for deleting them: 'We moved servers' and also '30gig per month is too difficult to archive' (Take your pick).

Producing the HH now would be the icing on the cake, no matter what they show. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[RagzMaster]

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I never really though much about it when i first read this, but the concept that a site destroys its HH data is WAY more worrying to me than ANYTHING else that has come from this.

Seriously, this is like 10 times worse than someone using a superuser account to see hole cards.

This remind me of a film scene, im pretty sure it was Wall Street, where late at night a bunch of employs are sat around a shredder feeding files into it because of an investigation that was going on.

There is two ways to look at it, the cynic would say there is WAY more to this story than what has been shown so far and so they have destroyed evidence where people have used the 363 or similar to cheat. The optimist would say that the site is a heavily mismanaged company that is highly incompetant and has a systemicly failed to set up the systems required for such a company to operate effectively.

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QFT

deleting hand histories is CRAZY!!!!

incompetance or theivery are the ONLY 2 conclusions that I can logically draw from it

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Well if it was ever proved that at least some of the BOTS that litter AP are owned owned/operated by AP and able to use hole card information, that would be devastating , imo. Just deleting everything is much, much seifer.

[TheTruthSpeaks]

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I'm not fully convinced about POTRIPPER being able to see all hole cards...

Everyone can get lucky, i guess.

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Guess again: Absolute has already been forced to admit that POTRIPPER knew the hole cards.

That game ended sometime last week, with the final score something like 100,000 - 1. You are the only one left on an empty field. Go home.

"It is better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

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Wow, you guys got leveled hard.

[Arnold_O]

druff, you da man!

you should have held up a couple of ipods as you were describing the amount of storage space required for all their hand histories.

and wow, i would have thought that much more would have been required.

[Psyzoid]

dan druff for president.

[Rx~]

this email from absolute was from over a week ago. makes me wonder if they are just holding off on sending out histories until they figure out how many months of hh's they want people to think they have on hand.

Your e-mail will be transferred to the proper department so they can send you
the hand histories they can possibly send.

We would greatly appreciate your patience; rest assured that you will be hearing
from them very soon.

If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Mary
AbsolutePoker ~ VIP Host
VIP@AbsolutePoker.com

Absolute Poker VIP Hosting: Setting The Standard For Online VIP Service

[[Phill]]

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The latter is not just a minor inconvenience: it hints at the fact that a lot more shady things could be going on besides user 363.

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Obviously, but that is all just speculation of potential cheating. Right now we have actual proof of cheating for at least $700k, that's obviously much worse than some shady practices for the time being. Yes, potentially this could lead to uncovering of more cheating for even more money. But all we know right now is that they delete old hand histories, which by itself doesn't mean there was more cheating going on.

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Since i made the origional point id like to add to it a bit more. I origionally figured the reasoning why didnt need outlining, but a couple people missed the key reasons to my statement.

The reason it is MUCH worse to "lose" hand histories than to have proven cheating is that with the proven cheating you can compensate those cheated - with lost HHs you cant ever find cheating.

As someone else asked, if they have no HHs older than 3 months, exactly what are these investigators going to look at?

Im not saying Seif did cheat. Im not saying Green or whoever did it this time cheated in the past. Im saying its entirely possible and we will NEVER know if it happened.

Moving this point to a wider scenario - what if there are botters operating on the site on and off for the past couple years - they show up for a few days a month then move on - there COULD be 24 months of data on these accounts, but instead there is now only 3 months of data. How much of a hinderence is it to track hole card spying, collusion, botting etc if your time frame for detection is such a short time period?

Is the site even willing to do this? Can we trust a site which is failing in basic areas as this to perform other expected duties like stop collusion?

"Losing" hand hists is many times worse than the proven Potripper cheating event and its something i can NEVER learn to trust a site for.

Seif wants Absolute to be rehabilitated and so on - im sorry, but if you cant be bothered to store key data like Hand Hists how can i ever trust my money and other financial details to you?

[BadMoFu]

Did anyone think about asking HH's from a random (non-ralated to this issue) tourney or s&g from like a year ago?
But i dont think they are dumb enough to fall for that.

[apefish]

To be fair to them... they are very dumb.

Just want them to get credit where it's due.

[OmahaDoc80]

On a side note. Just got done talking to a friend who used to work for Absolute. He said absolutely he fully expected something like this. He worked in both their Vancouver and Costa Rica offices and said management was a joke.