$50NL 3-bet pre with JJ gets cc.

[vixticator]

Bet flop. Try to get it all in on the turn? What am I missing?

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
bet something like 12 on the flop. if he calls, re-evaluate on the turn. why would you 3bet PF and not Bet on that flop when its all undercards?

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that he should bet the flop, but do not agree w/the implication of your last question. if you 3bet pf and get cold called by a nit pf are you still going to lead this flop? we have to use all the information we have available. a cold call of a 3 bet, albeit in position, shows a great deal of strength and i think it would be a bit foolhardy to just assume that he is setmining. are you willing to go the distance oop w/JJ here when you could easily be crushed?

[cmh]

I think people's calling range pf is fairly wide and against a typical starts NL50 player you can value bet this on multiple streets and get called by pocketpairs/ace.

Its a raise more than a call than I'm worried about. Somebody might show up here being passive with QQ+ but more likely they'll try to get all in with QQ+ and be passive with hands you have beat.

[ama0330]

bet flop and fold to a raise. as played, bet turn

[bozzer]

stove tells me you are still behind a {QQ+,AK} range on the turn. the only thing a bet does is a)bluff b)protect against AK. a) is unlikely to succeed), b) your hand isn't really worth protecting against his range.

obviously he could have a wider range than that but i think it's best to be cautious. if he checks behind turn i might decide his range is much wider and put in a little bet hoping to extract from smaller pocket pairs.

[bozzer]

i completely disagree with betting flop. this is a terrible idea.

when you are 3betting towards the lower end of your range and you get called it is perfectly fine to check-fold bad flops. this isn't a bad flop, but you are probably behind and he is probably not folding anything you beat to a cbet, so why bet?

[TheRenaissance]

bozzer,

your range is wayyyy to tight.
he CALLED a 3bet, he didnt MAKE one.
villain could have 22 here.

edit: ok, maybe not 22, but you know what i mean

[Upgrade_U]

Are we calling the raise on flop and c/c to the showdown unless any overs hit the board ?
So it's pretty much ok to get stacked off on these kind of boards with JJ ?

[bozzer]

[ QUOTE ]
bozzer,

your range is wayyyy to tight.
he CALLED a 3bet, he didnt MAKE one.
villain could have 22 here.

edit: ok, maybe not 22, but you know what i mean

[/ QUOTE ]

gap theory?

he may or may not be donking around with small pairs, but that still means there's no need to cbet, and i think it's questionable on the turn - you start building a pot with one street to go out of position. it's cautious, but i would wait until the river.

[flyerr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet something like 12 on the flop. if he calls, re-evaluate on the turn. why would you 3bet PF and not Bet on that flop when its all undercards?

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that he should bet the flop, but do not agree w/the implication of your last question. if you 3bet pf and get cold called by a nit pf are you still going to lead this flop? we have to use all the information we have available. a cold call of a 3 bet, albeit in position, shows a great deal of strength and i think it would be a bit foolhardy to just assume that he is setmining. are you willing to go the distance oop w/JJ here when you could easily be crushed?

[/ QUOTE ]

would need some info on villain ofcourse. But you're right, against a nit things would be diferent. bet the flop if he checked and probably fold to a raise.