guy claims he knows a pokerstars programmer that rigged the rng

[bystander]

I am a programmer and I can tell you it is far easier to rig poker software than it is to create software to play poker from scratch.
So if anything the argument - it would cost a lot - and is real hard to do is out the window.

The way the programmer said he did it also make sense. Something I would have to do as a programmer is make sure that in the long run the cards are not distributed abnormally i.e too many pocket aces getting cracked, because then anyone can use poker tracking tools and prove its rigged.
On the other hand, I have no idea how a programmer can screw it up to throw a fifth ace. (And release it to public too!)
The really good way to rig the site is to assign numeric values based on their wins/losses/playing style/newbie etc and say the higher number is favored in the deal because he recently joined and has not won much. Based on that the deal can be adjusted on the river /turn. Also settings can control which tables are rigged and which are not. Sometimes too, higher limit tables will not be rigged because firstly, they are very few newbies there and second, the pros might pick up on it.

the net result of a well rigged site: the very good players will still win though they might still suffer a few bad beats from newbies.
The newbies /bad players will last a little longer and will be encouraged.
However, the average/not so good players will now be losing players because all they needed was a little bit of variance to keep them in debt anyway.
thus, most of the rigged site stories will come from average players only since they are the ones the most victimized. Some winning players might discover this but most good players don't play at micro/medium and so may never notice this.
As a programmer, I see nothing extraordinary with this - but as a poker player it is disturbing to know it can be done <i>undetected!</i>

[pipermax]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a programmer and I can tell you it is far easier to rig poker software than it is to create software to play poker from scratch.
So if anything the argument - it would cost a lot - and is real hard to do is out the window.

The way the programmer said he did it also make sense. Something I would have to do as a programmer is make sure that in the long run the cards are not distributed abnormally i.e too many pocket aces getting cracked, because then anyone can use poker tracking tools and prove its rigged.
On the other hand, I have no idea how a programmer can screw it up to throw a fifth ace. (And release it to public too!)
The really good way to rig the site is to assign numeric values based on their wins/losses/playing style/newbie etc and say the higher number is favored in the deal because he recently joined and has not won much. Based on that the deal can be adjusted on the river /turn. Also settings can control which tables are rigged and which are not. Sometimes too, higher limit tables will not be rigged because firstly, they are very few newbies there and second, the pros might pick up on it.

the net result of a well rigged site: the very good players will still win though they might still suffer a few bad beats from newbies.
The newbies /bad players will last a little longer and will be encouraged.
However, the average/not so good players will now be losing players because all they needed was a little bit of variance to keep them in debt anyway.
thus, most of the rigged site stories will come from average players only since they are the ones the most victimized. Some winning players might discover this but most good players don't play at micro/medium and so may never notice this.
As a programmer, I see nothing extraordinary with this - but as a poker player it is disturbing to know it can be done <i>undetected!</i>

[/ QUOTE ]


Found this to be a pretty reasonable and thoughtful response on a subject that usually draws massive amounts of flame from true believers on both sides of the "online poker is rigged" argument.

Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

[lurker1022]

[ QUOTE ]
Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL really you wear your tinfoil to the local b&m's then too? ever heard of a gaming commission?

[CigarMike]

Seriously, the tinfoil hat joke wasn't that funny the first 231,978 times it was used, nor is it funny now. Thanks for your contribution to the thread anyway.

One thing is obvious from that site, if anythings rigged , its rigged for Washington Redskins fans.

[zen_rounder]

i thought everyone knew that getting it in as 70/30 dog on stars was how you won tournys anyway. once i learnt to suck out i did quite well...
his argument might have a bit more cred if he didnt mention the 5 aces, but then look at AP know one ever dared beleive what happened there. not saying stars is rigged or anything like that tho. he just made valid points weve all heard a 1000 times. plus he played at micro stakes. if your gainfully employed its not a good way to make extra dollars imo.

[holdme]

someone register and post a sick graph on that site

[Komodo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL really you wear your tinfoil to the local b&m's then too? ever heard of a gaming commission?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they actually doing anything other than collecting the licence money?

[apefish]

Just read thru that thread and all I can say is I'm now sure Mark Moseley was rigged.

[[Phill]]

I always feel safer playing online than live - even at random small sites.

To date, ive never spotted a marked card online.

Ive also never heard of people being caught colluding live, then have their bank accounts frozen and the money redistrubuted to the people they colluded against.

-----

Funny story from when i first started playing live - i was playing in my local casino and got talking to the regs, and the topic of someone winning a tourney at another casino in the city came up. Somehow someone mentioned how the regulars who play the tourneys in that game openly collude at final tables to ensure that people new the games dont win.

I was highly shocked, and asked why the casino did nothing to stop them softplaying each other and working to beat the "strangers" in the game instead of playing it straight up - they said there wasnt anything the floor could do and its a pretty common practice live. With the idea being to keep the funds within their circle.

Safe to say ive never played there and if i did so before finding out about this id sure as hell make sure the floor did something about it.

I also saw in a live cash game where two friends raised out a third player preflop, then chopped the pot instead of running the board (they showed they had AA and KK, so it wasnt raising out a third player with air just to chop). When i questioned one about it (the guy with AA infact) he said either they chop the pot here or they do it outside later anyway and the dealer basically accepted that there was nothing could be done about them deciding to chop - it was their decision. I told them it was bad for business and if they want to keep strangers in the game dont do it. I never saw it again but it still leaves me uncomfortable and if the third player in the hand wasnt a regular also id expect them to be extremely pissed about it.

Anyway you want to cut it, live games are WAY shadier than online. They just happen to be super juicy at the same time.

[lurker1022]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL really you wear your tinfoil to the local b&m's then too? ever heard of a gaming commission?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they actually doing anything other than collecting the licence money?

[/ QUOTE ]
i worked in vegas for a decade and oh ya, if a poker machine screws anybody theres hell to pay. nevadas gaming regulation is vvvg probably the best, AC's is more thorough but way to anal.

now the kawanhee indian (or whatever the hell it is in canada) i have no idea but this article http://www.online-casinos.com/news/news5739.asp doesn't make me wanna really bestow my trust in them. they look at nothing and have outsider review for them.

i could tell some good stories about nev gaming (and how to avoid them) .

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