QQ 3-bet pot, bad river

[jfish]

i have QJ and he winz.

[willw9]

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i have QJ and he winz.

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I'm still not crazy about the call.

[AAismyfriend]

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i have QJ and he winz.

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Jfish, would you value shove here with KQ/KJ? I assume you would amirite?

[jfish]

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i have QJ and he winz.

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Jfish, would you value shove here with KQ/KJ? I assume you would amirite?

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urrite.

[ddubois]

Is it contradictory to have value shoving KJ and bluff shoving QJ be part of the same game plan?

[willw9]

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Is it contradictory to have value shoving KJ and bluff shoving QJ be part of the same game plan?

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Can't quite grasp this atm, elaborate?

[ddubois]

In other words, if people are calling you so light (third pair) such that you think you can value bet (over-pot no less) with 2nd pair, then maybe you shouldn't be bluffing them. You can't both say: "He's got 88-QQ and think he'll call, so I shove KJ", and say: "He's got 88-QQ and think he'll fold, so I'll shove queen high."

[willw9]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, if people are calling you so light (third pair) such that you think you can value bet (over-pot no less) with 2nd pair, then maybe you shouldn't be bluffing them. You can't both say: "I know he's got 77-QQ and think he'll call, so I shove KJ", and say: "I know he's got 77-QQ and think he'll fold, so I'll shove queen high."

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O, you are just talking villain dependant. I mean if he's value shoving KJ its relativately thin, and for the same reasons, shoving QJ is relatively thin. I don't think shoving both against this villain is that bad. Both are just thin and high variance.

[jfish]

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Is it contradictory to have value shoving KJ and bluff shoving QJ be part of the same game plan?

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haha i dunno maybe. i just figured he doesnt ALWAYS call with QQ here and that maybe he folded QQ- enough of the time.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, if people are calling you so light (third pair) such that you think you can value bet (over-pot no less) with 2nd pair, then maybe you shouldn't be bluffing them. You can't both say: "He's got 88-QQ and think he'll call, so I shove KJ", and say: "He's got 88-QQ and think he'll fold, so I'll shove queen high."

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didn't we just go through a big thread on this like 2 weeks ago?