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  #31  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:20 AM
Kimbell175113 Kimbell175113 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The art of losing isn\'t hard to master.
Posts: 2,464
Default Re: Learning to communicate

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OP, how old are you?

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20

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If 18+, explain the "don't drink, but plan on it in future."

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Wish I could (explain it). I am just a sad, lonely hermit.

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I agree with whoever said get a girlfriend. It really does work wonders. Beyond that, whoever said mellow out in general was on the right track. Try some weed or something.

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Okay.

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Are you any good at reading/presenting stuff outloud? I think it's a valid question for purposes of determining your situation. Like, say you are given a presentation to present in front of class/co-workers, where you are going to have ample time to prepare, memorize, & practice what you are about to say. Do words flow easier then?

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Yes. On a related note, I was recently signing up for next semester's classes and decided to throw an intro acting class in there; we'll see what happens.

Phil,
nice post. But I don't really mind that people don't get it; my problem is that I don't explain it well. It's like when you take text and put it through a translator program, then back into English, and it's all goofy: that's what happens when I learn something from someone (or a book or forum) and then try to explain it.

Toastmasters guys,
yes, I've heard that as well. I'll think about it.

all,
thanks for the advice. I guess the thing is, I already know I should be trying to make friends, to be more confident, be a better writer, etc., but I was trying to ask about something a little more specific. Anyway, none of this stuff can hurt. I think the taperecorder suggestion is the best for what I was asking for, and I'll def put that into action.
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2007, 10:40 AM
AlexSem AlexSem is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 295
Default Re: Learning to communicate

Learning to communicate is like going to the gym. First month is going to be rough, it's going to hurt, you're going to be discouraged. You're going to think "why am I doing this?" and so on.

You stick with it and reap the results. Communicating is NO different. The advice you've received is great, except imho it assumes you to be far more broken than you really are.

You can write a forum post, unless you're extremely hideous in real life, smell bad or have a huge amount of loser habits, you're just an average computer lover [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

A lot of those here. You've decided it's not cool to sit in your room all day. Start small. Go to the gym, learn some sports, go to toastmasters. Do stuff outside of mandatory classes.

I'm guessing the real issue is you're anti-social. The fact that you're misunderstood is just a manifestation of a larger problem [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You're getting band-aid solutions whereas in reality I think it's going to take some pain and courage to start making positive changes, no pain no gain right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Gl.
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2007, 11:24 AM
captZEEbo captZEEbo is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: blog: Oct 23- Diary MD-pt 4
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Default Re: Learning to communicate

this might help a little bit....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assertive

Learning this stuff has made a world of difference for me. I couldn't give you books to read about it, because psychologists taught me it. There are basically 4 ways of communication: passive, aggressive, passive-aggressive, and assertive. Assertive is DEFINITELY > others.

Yeah definitely get a girlfriend and remember somethings. People like to be around positive and encouraging people. You seem like somewhat of a negative person. You have to remember that there's no reason to be negative, since negative thoughts just breed more negative thoughts. Anytime you find yourself thinking negative thoughts, try to think more positively. When you think positively you are happier.
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  #34  
Old 10-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Default Re: Learning to communicate

Interesting problem. What sorts of "dumb" things do you say? If you're in a situation where some girl asks you "who is the most brilliant physicist of all time?" do you say "you have nice breasts?" or do you say "Isaac Hawking?"

When I started law practice I spoke waaaaaaay too fast. It took several sessions on videotape before I realized that most or all of my audiences would be patient enough to listen to me speak slowly -- and that so doing is 9849578340 times more coherent and persuasive than my natural rapid cadence. I liked that suggestion.

You might try posting a short videotape of yourself in conversation around here to assist in the discussion.

Is your situation at all audience-dependent? I read what you said above that it happens all the time, but is it less severe with your mom than a stranger? How about with small children, where you might be hyperconscious of setting your premises carefully?

BTW, most conversations are thoroughly inane. You might be surprised at how much insight you're perceived as offering.
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  #35  
Old 10-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Kimbell175113 Kimbell175113 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The art of losing isn\'t hard to master.
Posts: 2,464
Default Re: Learning to communicate

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Interesting problem. What sorts of "dumb" things do you say? If you're in a situation where some girl asks you "who is the most brilliant physicist of all time?" do you say "you have nice breasts?" or do you say "Isaac Hawking?"

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definitely more like the second

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When I started law practice I spoke waaaaaaay too fast. It took several sessions on videotape before I realized that most or all of my audiences would be patient enough to listen to me speak slowly -- and that so doing is 9849578340 times more coherent and persuasive than my natural rapid cadence. I liked that suggestion.

You might try posting a short videotape of yourself in conversation around here to assist in the discussion.

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Yeah, I need to do something like this. I won't promise a video for you guys, but I do understand the concept and I've already thought about things to record.

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Is your situation at all audience-dependent? I read what you said above that it happens all the time, but is it less severe with your mom than a stranger? How about with small children, where you might be hyperconscious of setting your premises carefully?

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Ehn, not really, but of your choices I would say I definitely speak most easily to small children. At least, to my younger siblings, whom I tend to assume are infinitely brilliant and unprejudiced (so I may treat them differently subconsciously).

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BTW, most conversations are thoroughly inane. You might be surprised at how much insight you're perceived as offering.

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Yeah, I mean, people have indicated to me that I'm pretty respected in real life, in terms of people knowing that I am not just spouting nonsense, that I at least have something to impart. I just feel frustrated because I'm only getting across like 20% of what I'm shooting for. (example: no one can ever tell when I'm joking.)
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  #36  
Old 10-21-2007, 05:37 AM
BretWeir BretWeir is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: gainfully unemployed
Posts: 305
Default Re: Learning to communicate

If these problems are happening in mostly social situations, maybe you've been conversing at a higher level then expected?

I.e., if you're giving a dissertation talk, then complex ideas and intriguing thoughts are par for the course. But if you're chatting up a chick in a bar, then a discussion of string theory/Kant's categorical imperative/whatever deep thought you've been having lately (and many are less profound than these examples) probably won't be fully understood no matter how eloquent you are. It's a matter of calibrating your conversation to the audience. Seriously -- 90% of what we say to other people doesn't really mean anything at all; it's just verbal filler designed to build comfort and rapport. If you're looking to transmit ideas with everything you say, you're setting unrealistic (and unattainable) expectations.

A few ideas that might help things along (most of which have been mentioned by others before):

1. Read and talk -- a lot. When you read, think about how the author uses language to communicate ideas. When you talk, think about *nothing* -- just let it flow. It'll feel strange at first, but the point isn't to sound smart or to communicate ideas; it's to get in the habit of speaking. At some point, it becomes second nature.

2. If you're really having a problem in casual conversation, think of 4 or 5 interesting stories about your life and experiences. If it helps, write them out. You now have a bunch of conversation fillers that you can bust out anytime you hit a conversational lull. You don't need to memorize them word for word -- just the general idea, and fill in the details as you go along.

3. Slow down! Most people I know who have difficulty speaking either feel that their words outrace their ideas, or vice versa. Really, these are two sides of the same problem. If it's the former, then just pause long enough to picture the words in your mind before you say them. If the latter, then try to slow down your thought processes, and communicate just one idea at a time. Often, the conversation will stray, and you won't be able to communicate the whole idea you had in mind. That's fine! Again, outside a professional/academic setting, talking isn't mostly about communicating ideas, it's about creating comfort and rapport. Don't force the issue.

4. If you really want to improve fast, then something like Toastmasters or another "forced speaking" activity is a great bet. Just being forced to stand up in front of an audience and communicate breaks down many of the anxieties that tie peoples' tongues in everday situations.
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2007, 07:07 AM
mockturtle mockturtle is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 59
Default Re: Learning to communicate

my thoughts:

-work hard to isolate the problem, problems, or biggest problem. you say you have a hard time explaining things/expressing your views on the subject at hand. since i'm assuming you actually know what you're talking about (or you would have called your post "Learning to bs") the problem is either quickly organizing your thoughts and preparing them for delivery or actually speaking.

-if the former
i'd suggest spending time journalling, or writing in general (articles, blogs, etc). it's probably important you don't just write "i did this today, and this, and this" but focus on what you're having trouble doing, which is explaining a complex story and idea. furthermore, make these "stream of consciousness" since you mention this problem does not cross over to forums, since you have time to edit, conceptualize, etc. you want to be getting words on the screen or paper as fast as you can.

-if the latter
one of the best things to do is practice, starting with areas in which you are most comfortable. people here have given you many suggestions along the line of acquiring practice socializing and speaking. do not be so quick to put off "nerves". many of us can have anxious and nervous reactions (and probably do to some degree) that manifest themselves in a variety of ways of which the only thing in common is lack of success. there's no shame in it, it's no big deal. there are a zillion different people who can help you in all sorts of ways depending on the angle you're coming from, so i wouldnt know what to suggest (posts here are good examples, though). the key, though (in my opinion), is to make sure you're relaxed. signs you are not relaxed are tensing muscles, flexing your posture forward, speaking too fast, and holding your breath. keep aware of these things and if you see them happening, try to consciously work on it. maybe that will help you :-)
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