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| View Poll Results: California 7-1 | |||
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0 | 0% |
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0 | 0% |
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2 | 4.17% |
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1 | 2.08% |
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7 | 14.58% |
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16 | 33.33% |
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20 | 41.67% |
| Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#11
10-11-2007, 07:46 PM
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Re: Chronic River Bullies
I would think once the bully throws his cards in the muck his hand is dead.
I would state his hand is dead and I get the pot by default. If necessary call the floor and get a ruling. If they rule against you, ask who gets the pot if you muck (don't muck it obviously, just ask the question). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It should be your pot.... I would say "If I don't get to see his cards then he can't see mine".... 
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#12
10-11-2007, 08:14 PM
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Re: Chronic River Bullies
[ QUOTE ]
I would think once the bully throws his cards in the muck his hand is dead. [/ QUOTE ] Depends on whether his cards touch the muck or lay somewhere inbetween. Almost always if a player picks up his easily identifiable cards that are not touching any other cards and are over the "betting line" his hand is still live. I lost a hand that way when a player realized that they had "mucked" a straight when they were all in. And even if cards are touching the muck a hand can be retrieved in the best interests of the game... [ QUOTE ] I would state his hand is dead and I get the pot by default. [/ QUOTE ] What you state will carry no weight at the table. [ QUOTE ] If necessary call the floor and get a ruling. If they rule against you, ask who gets the pot if you muck (don't muck it obviously, just ask the question). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You will become very popular at the table. [ QUOTE ] It should be your pot.... I would say "If I don't get to see his cards then he can't see mine".... [/ QUOTE ] This is opening a serious can of worms. If his cards are easily identifiable and are not touching any other cards - and the Floor picks up his cards and turns them over because of what you said - his hand may be declared live and when your cards get turned over you could lose the hand. As a result I never say anything that would get the dealer/Floor to turn over an opponents hand... Like you, I don't think I should have to turn over my cards at showdown if my opponent has mucked. However, some rooms have rules to the contrary (including Foxwoods where I play). So I slip my cards face down to the dealer with my tip on top of them, and so far nobody has demanded to see my cards. If they did, I would let the dealer turn them over - because he would touch them to the muck first, signalling that the hand is over [edit: note I would also not release my cards until the pot was pushed to me]. Most rooms support an I Want To See The Hand (IWTSTH) rule which means that anybody at the table has a right to see a hand that makes it to SD (including the hand that was mucked by the river bully). The rule is there to prevent collusion, but even if there is no chance of collusion all rooms that have IWTSTH will have hands turned over, at least the first time somebody asks.
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#13
10-11-2007, 08:31 PM
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Re: Chronic River Bullies
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would think once the bully throws his cards in the muck his hand is dead. [/ QUOTE ] Depends on whether his cards touch the muck or lay somewhere inbetween. Almost always if a player picks up his easily identifiable cards that are not touching any other cards and are over the "betting line" his hand is still live. I lost a hand that way when a player realized that they had "mucked" a straight when they were all in. And even if cards are touching the muck a hand can be retrieved in the best interests of the game... [ QUOTE ] I would state his hand is dead and I get the pot by default. [/ QUOTE ] What you state will carry no weight at the table. [ QUOTE ] If necessary call the floor and get a ruling. If they rule against you, ask who gets the pot if you muck (don't muck it obviously, just ask the question). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You will become very popular at the table. [ QUOTE ] It should be your pot.... I would say "If I don't get to see his cards then he can't see mine".... [/ QUOTE ] This is opening a serious can of worms. If his cards are easily identifiable and are not touching any other cards - and the Floor picks up his cards and turns them over because of what you said - his hand may be declared live and when your cards get turned over you could lose the hand. As a result I never say anything that would get the dealer/Floor to turn over an opponents hand... [/ QUOTE ] That is a good point but in this particular case when I say he mucked his hand his cards were clearly in the muck. He threw them there because he did not want to show. My question was however that I did not want to show my cards at this point. Is there anyway I can argue to take down the pot at this point since the aggressor mucked his cards already...without having to show my own cards. I did not want to show basically. And in light of the fact that I made a difficult call and the aggressor mucked I feel as though I should not have too. But the dealer made me turn over my cards.
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#15
10-12-2007, 11:36 AM
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Re: Chronic River Bullies
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It boggles my mind that so many casinos have varying rules about showdowns. In the So Cal casinos the last person to bet shows their hand first. No way around it. Also, In order to win the pot you must show both your cards, even if you have 3 high and the original better mucks. [/ QUOTE ] So what happens to the pot when original bettor mucks then you muck? [/ QUOTE ] The dealer makes you flip your cards up before they ship you the pot. "Show your cards for the pot sir."
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