KK facing Flop Check Raise (Hero Deep + Villain Deep)

bige321786 · #1 09-22-2007, 06:46 PM

Villain is 17.4/14.5/16 over 140 Hands
Seems competent, thinking, and obvioulsy aggressive

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($28.30)
MP ($19.25)
Hero ($75.95)
SB ($92.15)
BB ($55.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, BB calls $1, MP calls $1.

Flop: ($3.85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $2.4, BB raises to $9, MP folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $8.65

Feel free to rip in to me if you think it's justified. Felt like a set to me and I just felt there were better spots and easier money at this table.
All thoughts appreciated.

doppelganger · #2 09-22-2007, 07:03 PM

Good fold IMO at this limit. Villain you describe is not calling from the BB w/ one gappers like 57/79 and this is an otherwise very dry board.

Here's a side question: At what limit do you start running into 3rd level thinkers who will say "Hey, here's a thinking opponent and a super dry board, I bet I can push him off a better hand by repping a set here..."

Nogatsira · #3 09-22-2007, 07:10 PM

Holy cow get it in there!
Look at his agression factor, its 16!
If it really is 16 then you are a HUUUUGE favorite over his range here.

If it's 1.6 and a typo then I still think folding is weak, because he'll do with with alot of hands. This flop isnt likely to have hit a preflop raiser, it's a good one to reraise with air

doppelganger · #4 09-22-2007, 07:19 PM

I don't know, I don't like where the pot size is going holding a pair against a 105BB stack. Maybe it's a call and reeval the turn situation, but are you suggesting we try and play for stacks right here?

bige321786 · #5 09-22-2007, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Holy cow get it in there!
Look at his agression factor, its 16!
If it really is 16 then you are a HUUUUGE favorite over his range here.

If it's 1.6 and a typo then I still think folding is weak, because he'll do with with alot of hands. This flop isnt likely to have hit a preflop raiser, it's a good one to reraise with air

[/ QUOTE ]

Those were my exact thoughts and I thought it absolutely EV+ to call with normal stack sizes against this player.
With both stacks quite deep, I didn't feel like risking over 2 buy ins with an overpair.
Maybe my thinking is archaic and nitty. Yes?

Nogatsira · #6 09-22-2007, 07:21 PM

If he really has an AF of 16 then that means he practically never calls. He raises and reraises.
If that is true, then we are ahead and then I shove it in.

If he isnt playing super agressive, then I probably call and reeval on the turn. I'm not going to trow away a big overpair on such a dry flop

Nogatsira · #7 09-22-2007, 07:22 PM

Hmz stacks are indeed huge here, but that's another reason why I would AT LEAST see the turn and his action. There is alot to win here, so I wont give it up that fast

bige321786 · #8 09-22-2007, 07:23 PM

His aggression factor really was 16.00
No typo.

Nogatsira · #9 09-22-2007, 07:25 PM

Then I think I'd check/call it down. He'll do the betting for you while holding a worse hand alot of the time.

bige321786 · #10 09-22-2007, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Then I think I'd check/call it down. He'll do the betting for you while holding a worse hand alot of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against this type of player, with this size of a stack, aren't there going to be much better spots to use his aggression against him? This just feels like being hopeful IMO.
Again, I could be a nit and this might be a leak in my game.