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View Poll Results: In the most recent review I signed up for.....
I never even exchanged HH with my partner 2 14.29%
Contact was made but we didnt/havent got round to completing the review process 2 14.29%
The review was completed to my satisfaction 10 71.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 08-13-2007, 05:56 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default What Would Your Ruling Be?

I'm playing at the Choctaw casino in Oklahoma in Durant and a situation occurred where I was disqualified from a $120 pot. Tell me if you think this was a proper ruling.

Here are the facts:
*1/2 NLHE game
*It is the river
*There are three players and I'm in middle position.

The ep player makes a $2 bet at a $120 pot from seat#9. Being in seat#1, I don't see the bet (the dealer blocks my view) and I check. The LP player folds throwing his cards in the middle and the dealer drags his cards in the muck. The dealer is obviously not paying attention because he says, 'show me a winner'. The ep player shows a low flush and I turn over a King hi flush. Then the ep player complains that I forfeit the pot. The floor is called and the ruling is made against me. My understanding was I was DQ because it is against the rules to show your hand if you not heads-up. The ruling was the lp playing was still in the hand since he folded out-of-turn. Later, I told this story to another player and he said I got ripped off. I approached the card room manager 'Larry' and he said *IF* what I said was 100% accurate, he would have not DQ me from the pot. The angleshooter gave me $10 and I thanked him (I'm a B&M neebie).

The ep angleshooter claimed he played in card rooms all over the country and that the ruling was a proper ruling. Please vote in the poll.

Epilogue: Four hands later, the angle-shooter goes all-in pre-flop with KK and JJ calls. JJ hits a 1-card str8 and cleans out the angleshooter. The angleshooter leaves in disgust (he had been losing the entire session).
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:00 PM
chillrob chillrob is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

I think you are likely confused about why you were disqualified from winning. It should not be from showing your hand as you say the EP player showed his hand as well.
I would think you would be disqualified because you failed to call the last bet.
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:08 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

[ QUOTE ]
I would think you would be disqualified because you failed to call the last bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the dealer was doing his job he would have disallowed my check and I would have called the $2 bet in a heartbeat. My cards NEVER entered the muck. I only flipped my cards over because the dealer said 'show me a winner'. The ep player did not announce his bet nor could I see his bet..... I can't call what I can't hear or see. Can I?

Obviously if I threw in $2 there never would have been an issue and I would have won the pot. In the future if I don't like the ruling I will appeal to 'Larry'. I don't trust the judgement of the guy that made that ruling.
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:11 PM
Rottersod Rottersod is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

Another stupid ruling from a floor and a dealer who doesn't have the guts to back you up.
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:15 PM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

If the bet had been bigger, would the fold behind Felix's check have been considered "signifnicant action"? If so, technically Felix's hand should have been killed. Of course, the ruling here is retarded and I would let Felix call with the cards face up.
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:16 PM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

I don't see any grounds to disqualify the OP. The thornier problem is, the zoned-out dealer has tricked the opponent into showing his cards prematurely.

Given the dollar amount involved, I'd be inclined to let play go on and let you call the $2, raise, or fold. But it's not really fair that you get to know your opponent's hand before making the decision. Perhaps letting the opponent take back his $2 and considering the hand all-in would be a remedy for this problem.

Dealer of course gets a swift kick in the nuts. You get a slap on the wrist for not following the action ahead of you. But killing your hand is pretty outrageous IMO.
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:17 PM
JLimbs JLimbs is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

I don't think you should have been disqualified from the pot. Its the dealers fault for not controlling the action properly.

Having said that, I am not sure what the proper ruling is (and I play B+M cash for a living). If I had to guess since the better never turned over his hand its your action and you still have to decide whether or not to call his bet.

-Jerry
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  #8  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:24 PM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

Wait, from the OP I'm confused about the chronology.

It sounds like the dealer says, "Show me a winner," EP tables, then OP tables. But of course that means if any hand should be killed for premature exposure (a dumb use of the rule anyway -- it's an anti-taunting rule!) then it's the EP's.

So I gather that OP showed first, which means if EP's card are still concealed then it's mostly a non-issue. OP may be vexed that he can't get any more action from the second-nuts (e.g. by raising) but he can just call and show down.

When people try to grasp for reasons to apply a rule they don't understand, they come up with rulings like this. I would talk to the room manager, give him or her a printout of this thread, and suggest that he or she educate the floors better. Doesn't Oklahoma have a lot of competition in the poker market now?
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:32 PM
Rottersod Rottersod is offline
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Default Re: What Would Your Ruling Be?

[ QUOTE ]
If the bet had been bigger, would the fold behind Felix's check have been considered "signifnicant action"? If so, technically Felix's hand should have been killed. Of course, the ruling here is retarded and I would let Felix call with the cards face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't have mattered because as soon as dealer said "lets see the winner" then OP has his claim that he never saw the bet validated.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2007, 06:44 PM
Felix_Nietzsche Felix_Nietzsche is offline
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Default Does This Make Me a Prick?

[ QUOTE ]
Another stupid ruling from a floor and a dealer who doesn't have the guts to back you up.

[/ QUOTE ]
I blame the dealer for not controlling the game.
After losing the pot I was too stunned to pay attention to the name of the dealer. Being in seat #1, I didn't pay attention to his face and I was entirly focused on the game. He was a young guy with closely cropped hair and later I narrowed him down to two possible dealers. If I could 100% identify him, I would 'stiff' him on tips until I recouped my $120 from him.

Does this make me a prick or one righteous dude? My view is dealers must EARN their tips otherwise they don't deserve them...
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