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  #31  
Old 10-11-2007, 05:21 AM
youtalkfunny youtalkfunny is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

Here's a story I witnessed, which I hope might clear up the controversy:

$30-60 Limit. The flop gets capped, and two players see the turn. We'll call the players "Tourist" and "Known Scumbag".

They're heads-up, so there's no cap. They get about six bets in on the turn, and another seven bets in on the river. The hands are turned up, and Tourist has the best hand. Known Scumbag immediately tells me, "Don't push that pot, call the floor."

When the floor comes over, Known Scumbag explains that Tourist took money out of his pocket and added it to the stack after the flop got capped. Known Scumbag wants all his turn and river bets returned to him.

I hope this illustrates why RR ruled the way he did. As we say so often in this forum, "Sometimes the fair thing to do is to directly contradict a written rule." You can't let Known Scumbag take the shot that he did.

How can you sleep at night after you tell Tourist, "Sir, you just bet $780 on the turn and river. If you lose the hand, you lose that money. But if you win the hand, you have 'no action' on those bets."

How can Tourist walk away from that and NOT think that a team of con men just worked him over?

Again, this really happened. Floorman knew little about poker, Known Scumbag yelled the loudest (and was also a muscle-bound, intimidating specimen), so the decision went his way. Tourist racked up and left, no doubt to return home and warn all his friends to stay away from the XXXXX casino.

Mikech,

In my story, something happened on the flop that is not allowed (Tourist added to stack). If brought to the attention of the dealer or the floor, it can be corrected immediately, and the hand can play on. But it WASN'T brought to anyone's attention.

"Why didn't the dealer see it happen?" Because the dealer can't see both ends of the table at once. This was a massive pot, and I was pulling in bets from all directions.

The time to correct this was when it happened. If several bets are placed with this money, those bets have to stand. It's the fairest thing to do.

Bottom line, at no time should a player have a free shot at another player's money. If you decide to invoke a rule, you don't get to see if you win first before making that decision.
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2007, 09:57 AM
JokersAttack JokersAttack is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

youtalkfunny > you should have just ignored him and pushed the pot the tourist.
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  #33  
Old 10-11-2007, 12:23 PM
jively jively is offline
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Location: Long Island, NY
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

[ QUOTE ]

also, i thought only $100 bills played. throw that rule out the window too?

edit: i guess it wasn't specified in the post and he could've taken out $20 in chips from his pocket and not a bill. on first read my impression was he took out a bill.

[/ QUOTE ]
It could also be what happens anytime someone pulls out $20. The dealer takes the $20 and gives him $20 in chips.

-Tom
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:01 PM
pfapfap pfapfap is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

[ QUOTE ]
youtalkfunny > you should have just ignored him and pushed the pot the tourist.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a quick way to turn a messy situation into a disaster.
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  #35  
Old 10-11-2007, 01:38 PM
NicksDad1970 NicksDad1970 is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

The way I understand it is if it's heads up and the other player doesn't mind then it's a go.

I'd say even if the other player now said he does mind then it's too late because he allowed the action.
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2007, 07:59 PM
CORed CORed is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

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Action offered and accepted

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then why have a table-stakes rule in the first place?

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So people who don't want the extra money to play don't have to accept it?

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If someone at the table complains about buy-in caps or table stakes, and the excess money would exceed one of these, I would simply request the winner pocket the excess booty. Basically treat that extra $20 as a side bet done off the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this would violate Colorado gaming regs (side bets not allowed).
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2007, 09:20 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Action offered and accepted

[/ QUOTE ]
then why have a table-stakes rule in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]
So people who don't want the extra money to play don't have to accept it?

[/ QUOTE ]
If someone at the table complains about buy-in caps or table stakes, and the excess money would exceed one of these, I would simply request the winner pocket the excess booty. Basically treat that extra $20 as a side bet done off the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this would violate Colorado gaming regs (side bets not allowed).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing in Colorado you may not make a side bet. This hand could have taken place anywhere in the world.
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  #38  
Old 10-12-2007, 03:33 AM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,634
Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... Messy. I'll accept that line of reasoning. The wisdom of Solomon, again.

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Bav,

If there was a way to search for and then compile every thread that you and Randy (RR) have participated in (along with a few others who post here) and somehow require every poker shift manager, floor and dealer in the world to read and comprehend the compilation the poker world would be a better place.

Maybe Google can invent some special search for at least the first part. The second part is unfortunately unlikely. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick
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  #39  
Old 10-12-2007, 04:45 AM
bav bav is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 2,857
Default Re: A floor call and table stakes

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... Messy. I'll accept that line of reasoning. The wisdom of Solomon, again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bav,

If there was a way to search for and then compile every thread that you and Randy (RR) have participated in (along with a few others who post here) and somehow require every poker shift manager, floor and dealer in the world to read and comprehend the compilation the poker world would be a better place.

Maybe Google can invent some special search for at least the first part. The second part is unfortunately unlikely. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]
Wacky notion. I know nothing that y'all haven't taught me. The sum total of my poker wisdom comes from reading RR and the many other wise and wonderful players, dealers, and floor people who hang out here. All's I do is collect and sift out the cruft and keep the nuggets ("action offered and accepted" being a fine example of "nugget").

But thank you. I agree the poker world would be a MUCH more just place if every poker room employee could read through a Best of B&M sorta summary. I can easily envision someone collecting a few dozen of these threads and highlighting the salient parts to turn into a new 2+2 book (sorting out copyright ownership issues is left as an exercise for the reader).
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