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  #11  
Old 08-05-2007, 01:10 PM
TommyTD TommyTD is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

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I think you are golden here. His re raise then call pre flop followed by the check on the flop screams of two big cards. If he has AA or KK he is going to lead out on that board. Even if he had 99 or 88 he would probably lead out. I don't hate the 160 bet, but 180 should be the bottom of your betting range into that pot.

Let us know what happened........ Go Birds!

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No. This is horrible advice.

Given u 3bet PF you have to play for stacks on this board, Given PF bet/call AI..

Best line would probably be call PF, call his flop cont bet (or check flop back) and play poker from there.

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Kaz, just trying to understand your line here. Given that we did 3 bet it and the villian checked it on the flop why wouldn't you bet it?
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2007, 03:21 PM
minnesotasam minnesotasam is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

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why are we four betting a thinking guy oop

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Well, the initial thinking was that I wanted to significantly narrow his range in the immediate moment, since we were so deep. My fear at the time was that I would be in a spot where I'd have a really hard time folding the turn and/or river to a second/third barrel on a 9 or 8 high board. I wanted to give myself an immediate chance to fold.

Of course the second I announced the bet, I realized that if I were in Jerry's shoes with aces (not so much kings), this is the easiest flat call and c/rai flop of all time.

Just think its a tough spot due to the depth.
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2007, 04:27 PM
is0pr0 is0pr0 is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

You say you know his game. Is he trappy or like to C/R good hands on dry boards? 3 hands beat you pre, and by 4 betting/C betting, you commited more than half your stack. In doing so, im playing for stacks. If he pushes, your getting good odds to call.
I myself would call 3 bet pre, evaluate flop. If he cbets this flop, id reraise. If he pushed, I can still fold. If he calls, he would prob check to you on riv and Id check for pot control. Then id call a fair bet on riv.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2007, 04:30 PM
is0pr0 is0pr0 is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

Oh ,and im from Philly too looking for new club. (my reg joint went under) If you like to fill me in, drop a pm. Would be appriciated. Also nice to make new local contacts.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2007, 04:32 PM
is0pr0 is0pr0 is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

I meant 2 hands beat you pre in orig post lol. my bad
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2007, 04:43 PM
jlocdog jlocdog is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

I understand preflop raises vary in live games and you want to 'go with the flow' or what have you but I would seriously be making it more like 12-15 preflop. Many reasons for this. You want to get money into the pot since you rate to have the best hand. You want to thin the field because QQ multi way is not ideal. And because of these two factors you actually exercise a bit of pot control (ideally) by attempting to make this a HU affair with someone. This will serve you well given the fact that you ar OOP for the rest of the hand (most likely) and you are deep with QQ.

As played, I would not be 4betting preflop here. Jerry hasn't been to aggro preflop so his hand rates to be torwards the top part of his range. Also I can probably infer by the tone of the game (and usually all live games) that there is minimal to no 4betting going on with 3betting even being a rarity sometimes so your 4bet polarizes your range very distinctly with you actually holding the middle hand in that perceived range (JJ-AA,AK). Being this deep, Jerry can afford to call light given the large implied odds offered, call strong to disguise his AA/KK, or on the other side of the coin, fold a hand that you had in big trouble like mid PP's or AQ or reraise you again thereby either pushing you off your QQ preflop (after you have already invested a bunch) or make you call with an inferior hand cause 'you just couldn't get away from it'.

So all the 4bet did was announce what you had all the while keeping his hand well disguised. If you still think there is merit to 4betting here, then reraise more then 80. It is not often that you can successfully 4bet preflop and get away from your hand later with less then 300BB (barring really awful flops for your hand) since it usually works out that you are left with a little more then a PSB after the fact.

Once the flop hits you have to realize that any further action in this hand results in commitment. Pot is ~$260 and Jerry has $420 left. If you bet your $160 and he shoves you are facing a raise of ~$260 into a pot of $940 or so. No way you find a fold. Also no way are you happy with your situation since you beat the very bottom of his range for shoving (77,TT,JJ,AKs,AQs) and are behind to almost every other reasonable holding you can think of. And the likelyhood of him shoving with some of those hands that you beat seems a bit farfetched as he is probably looking to just get to showdown by now with them. I wouldn't give air in his range too much credit since it looks like you are mot definetly going with this hand so he can't figure a bluff will work almost ever. So give the same % of him holding air that you think a bluff can be successful in this spot by him.

You need to instacheck this flop. Unless he has 77 or precisely AKs/AQs you are either WA or WB. The risk of giving a free card isn't as bad as it may seem. Not too many combos for him holding a FD or SD. Sure you are giving a free look at a possible 6 outer to AK but again, unless you feel you are ahead you can't afford to bet since you will have to call a shove and if he just calls you are bound to get it in on any turn which most likely doesn't bold well for you. By the turn I would look to shove to any check and call any non crap card. You put yourself in this position so now you have to stack off because of pot odds + the chance that he lost his sense.
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  #17  
Old 08-06-2007, 04:23 AM
JackAll JackAll is offline
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Default Re: Live 1/2 QQ 275BBs deep

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are we four betting a thinking guy oop

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the initial thinking was that I wanted to significantly narrow his range in the immediate moment, since we were so deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising for info. I like it.
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