Deep with Kings...not familiar territory

jmillerdls · #1 07-07-2007, 11:58 AM

Villain is 24/12/1.3 but its only over 25 hands...

I'm not completely comfortable playing big pocket pairs when myself and the villain are both deep.

Do I get away from this somewhere? His turn bet was so big...It made me think he was betting scared (AQ?).

I was trying to control the size of the pot (the reason for the flop call, and the turn check)...but once he came out so big, I honestly thought I was ahead.

Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($91)
UTG+1 ($51.80)
MP1 ($53.70)
MP2 ($29.25)
MP3 ($105.40)
CO ($44.55)
Button ($58.95)
Hero ($89.60)
BB ($15.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises to $2.5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, MP3 calls $5.50.

Flop: ($16.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, MP3 raises to $20, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($56.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $40, Hero raises to $61.6

cameronbarry · #2 07-07-2007, 12:09 PM

this looks INCREDIBLY strong

what is your image? if your image is standard 50NL Nit who only reraises PF with AA or KK this is an instafold.

unless this guy is a total idiot/maniac, players at these levels tend to play very straightforwardly in RRed pots ESPECIALLY when a bit deep (i.e. they're never bluffing.)

he has to put you on AA or KK and yet he minraises you and follows through on the turn with substantial bet. he puts you on AA or KK and yet he's still betting?? he never expects you to fold those.

i expect to be shown 33/88/QQ and rarely AA and just about never AQ or a bluff.

but i do play a bit higher so my analysis might be slightly off

jmillerdls · #3 07-07-2007, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this looks INCREDIBLY strong

what is your image? if your image is standard 50NL Nit who only reraises PF with AA or KK this is an instafold.

unless this guy is a total idiot/maniac, players at these levels tend to play very straightforwardly in RRed pots ESPECIALLY when a bit deep (i.e. they're never bluffing.)

he has to put you on AA or KK and yet he minraises you and follows through on the turn with substantial bet. he puts you on AA or KK and yet he's still betting?? he never expects you to fold those.

i expect to be shown 33/88/QQ and rarely AA and just about never AQ or a bluff.

but i do play a bit higher so my analysis might be slightly off

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, I'm pretty tight, but I think my image was pretty active when the hand went down.

Personally, I was thinking QQ when the min-raise took place...but I don't think he would bet that much on the turn with the nuts...More to the point, I'd be stunned to ever see QQ when he bets that big on the turn...at these stakes. That big of a bet makes me think he wants me to fold, and what hand would he have that wants me to fold on that flop?

At least...that was my reasoning...completely off base?

jmillerdls · #4 07-07-2007, 12:21 PM

in other words, if he would have bet about half of my remaining stacks, I would have folded. That's how I thought he'd play a set.

simonpoker · #5 07-07-2007, 12:53 PM

he mighy have bet that big because te FD hit the board players on those stakes are like bots and they will pprice any draws on that board.

jmillerdls · #6 07-07-2007, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he mighy have bet that big because te FD hit the board players on those stakes are like bots and they will pprice any draws on that board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess...would seem like an arbitrary reason...but I guess that's possible.

Bianculli · #7 07-07-2007, 01:15 PM

[quote...but I don't think he would bet that much on the turn with the nuts...More to the point, I'd be stunned to ever see QQ when he bets that big on the turn...at these stakes. That big of a bet makes me think he wants me to fold, and what hand would he have that wants me to fold on that flop?

At least...that was my reasoning...completely off base?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard to say how this particular player would play the nuts with so little info on him. In general however, it is not unusual for someone to play the nuts this strong and even push the turn. If he puts you on kk or aa, he feels like he has you and wants to get your stack. He may not be thinking about it very much at all, or he may be concerned with cards that could come to kill his action (not necessarily make him lose). If an ace peels off, he's either beat or could lose action against kk. He's probably just betting a strong hand hard without thinking however.

I'm not saying that's what he has, just that your rationale that no one would take this line with qq or some other set is not correct.