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| View Poll Results: who likes | |||
| check/call |
   
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/call |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| bet/3b |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| check/raise |
  
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/fold (NITS) |
  
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0 | 0% |
| Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
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#1
11-29-2007, 02:40 PM
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Re: $25NL, flop str8
[ QUOTE ]
Results: I thought for a second, re-evaluated stack sizes, and figured with the size of the pot and the texture of the flop, my equity was good enough to shove. So, that's what I did. He snap called and QQ>KJhh. I ran poker stove on this and unless his range is only sets, 2pr and straights, I'm better than the 31% equity I need for shoving to be correct. [/ QUOTE ] I get you are 28.6% against 77+,AhKh,AhJh,KhJh,J9s,Th9h,T8s,87s,6h5h,J9o,T8o,8 7o KhJh is a slight favorite with the gutshot, flushdraw and over. This has range has 99, JJ, AhKh and AhJh which are the other strong draw or combo hands. In order to go over 31% he does have to include some much less strong hands like 65o. 
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#2
11-29-2007, 06:07 PM
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Re: $25NL, flop str8
[ QUOTE ]
I get you are 28.6% against 77+,AhKh,AhJh,KhJh,J9s,Th9h,T8s,87s,6h5h,J9o,T8o,8 7o KhJh is a slight favorite with the gutshot, flushdraw and over. This has range has 99, JJ, AhKh and AhJh which are the other strong draw or combo hands. In order to go over 31% he does have to include some much less strong hands like 65o. [/ QUOTE ] Or remove some unlikley hands like QQ+ and add some more likely combo draws like JTs, T9s and 89s.
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#3
11-29-2007, 10:56 PM
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$50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com
UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds?
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#4
11-30-2007, 01:43 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here.
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#5
11-30-2007, 01:56 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here. [/ QUOTE ] I think youre on the right track Mike but I think a random player has a wider range than that. John - the pot is ~ your stack and your hand is probably near the middle of his range, so I think I'd check and let him bet. I'd probably call any bet because I think you pick off bluffs and some weaker made hands (T9 TJ maybe some other stuff) often enough to be profitable. * - This is my hunch and I havent run Poker Stove with any ranges so I might change my opinion.
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#6
11-30-2007, 05:48 PM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is solid and very few solid seeming players will bluff raise the river. If villain is loose enough and/or hero's image is insane like Devin then a lot of beaten hands will call a shove. If that's not the case I think villain has a pretty wide range that will call that blocking bet, but fold to a push. edit: In some circles hero might be able to think he can push and make the villain think "He's repping exactly a full house - so it's FH or nothing - I call with 55", but I don't think these are those circles.
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#7
12-01-2007, 12:48 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
Wow, thanks guys. All the responses to my JJ hand were great and very insightful looks into your thought processes.
fwiw here was the result: PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $39.9</font>, jb calls $19 (All-In). Final Pot: $110.40 Results: jb has Js Jd (two pair, jacks and fours). UTG has 9h 9d (full house, nines full of fours). Outcome: UTG wins $110.40. My thought process on the hand was fairly close to Mike's thoughts in his response. I chose to bet/fold but then thought about it too long and ended up calling due to pot odds. (I know, sort of the reverse of planning a stop-and-go and then not going!) I believe bet/fold would be a good river line if we were deeper but I think we were too shallow here. I have to do a lot more thinking about all your responses.
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#8
12-01-2007, 02:32 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
I suck at cash, what do I do here I got into tourney poker so I didnt ever have to fold aces?
Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $53.70 BB: $96.25 UTG: $31.30 Hero (BTN): $49.30 Pre-Flop: A  A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.25) Q 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q (2 Players)BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $3 Turn: ($16.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($31.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $39</font>
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#9
11-30-2007, 01:16 PM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] grunch I much prefer value-shoving to checking. Based on his play, I think his range is {boat/quads,mid PP that just doesn't believe you,JT,QT,QJ}. There's plenty in there that might look you up and I hate folding that river to a shove. Checking just lets the T's and mid PP's out for free but loses to either monsters or bluffs, depending on whether you c/c or c/f. I even see people call down with AK-unimproved all the way. Who knows what they think they're beating at that point. Plus, if you're beat, you can always hit your open-ender on 6th street. EDIT: If the river is the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I check. That ten made a second-best hand for a decent chunk of his range. If it were just monsters, missed draws, and those stubborn PP's, my guess is you'd get more value out of checking to induce a bluff.
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#10
11-30-2007, 03:37 PM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
JJ hand,
I agree with slim. There is really no value in c/c. No draws really missed but JT, and he's checking that behind a long with all other hands you beat. So, you have to ask you self if you are willing to c/f against this particular opponent. If you think you JJ is ahead of his hand and don't want to fold the hand, shove it!
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