nut flush on river, can I call here?

[hate_dr_dre]

This hand made me freaking sick. No low qualifies and there is action in front of me. I feel like given the action I made the correct play, what do you guys think?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Omaha/8 (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2, 2, A, T. UTG posts a blind of $0.25. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 3, 3, J (8 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6 (6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG folds.

River: (11 BB) Q (4 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

[donger]

Analyzing microstakes hands is tough, but somebody had better have a FH here.

[Olrik]

the pot is huuugggeee on the flop but what exactly are you drawing for?

[antistuff]

fold that flop that call is ridiculous.

[hate_dr_dre]

ok, flop call was based on two things. One, this table was lagtarded and i kept getting runner runner drawn out on, so taking a card off in an already large pot seemed like a reasonable idea. Two, I had position.

turn card was about the best card i could hope for, giving me draws to nut flush and nut low. The way the betting went on the turn made me think the nut flush could be good here, because no one to that point seemed to have made anything.

With a bet and an instaraise in front of me on river, i couldn't possibly see how a flush was good. i figured the Q filled someone up. I had mentally committed on the turn to calling a bet on the river if i made my flush, but obviously not two bets with no low safety net.

initial raiser had king high flush, reraiser had 10 high flush, guy who called two bets after i folded had j high flush.

I put myself in a stupid situation by making a donk call on the flop, and then not following it up with a donk call on the river.

[Olrik]

well that flop call basicly asks for trouble (which you got on the river).

[brian64]

It depends on how the table plays, but you might have had the correct odds to call on the flop strictly for the backdoor low draw. I don't think it's a terrible play given that so many people saw the flop, and it's possible one of your other draws (a 2, backdoor flush, backdoor straight) is good.

Even with the big pot odds, calling 2 bets on the river seems unwise unless you have good reads on the villains. In my experience, even at micro limits it's unusual for someone to raise on the river with a non-nut flush on a paired board.

[jbrennen]

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, even at micro limits it's unusual for someone to raise on the river with a non-nut flush on a paired board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was part of a microstakes O/8 hand recently (part of a HORSE ring game) where two players ended up heads up and they ended up capping the river with a paired board. One had the A-high flush, the other the K-high flush.

[hate_dr_dre]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my experience, even at micro limits it's unusual for someone to raise on the river with a non-nut flush on a paired board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was part of a microstakes O/8 hand recently (part of a HORSE ring game) where two players ended up heads up and they ended up capping the river with a paired board. One had the A-high flush, the other the K-high flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

In games like this, I usually open up my playable hand range and see a lot more showdowns, and raise like crazy with strong hands, because more likely than not you're going to get paid off. nit play get destroyed when 4-5 people are regularly going to showdown, because a made hand on the flop never wins. games like these are incredibly exploitable if you know how to adjust properly to the situation, which I guess could be said for all of poker.

within 20-30 minutes of sitting down, I can usually figure out about how tight or loose i should be playing, and what kind of hand strengths are going to be good at showdown.

The game that this hand went down didn't seem as loose/bad as it was, and after the hand I obviously started loosening up my hand criteria, which is one of the key lessons learned from a hand like this.

[brian64]

People who play Hold'Em but don't know O8 make that sort of mistake. I saw someone raise preflop with KT66 yesterday, so I guess you never know.