Failed stack a donk vs random river aggro

[Profish2285]

First of all who cares? Thank you for the internet lingo update, I care about the hand.

[AZplaya]

eh I call here, your probably behind a fair amount but honestly your line looks so fos his range is wider than normal for doing this. Potting this river planning on folding to a raise is gross.

[Profish2285]

FWIW I wasnt planning on folding, especially with 1/2 my stack in. Im just used to the dogma of river aggression = nutz. Of course as usual it was close to it but I thought my line looks so bluffy that a call isnt terrible.

[Babalatexi]

All right...

On to the hand, the odd thing is that I don't see what else than 45s or A4 villain would bluff with here. This doesn't really make sense for other hands than those, A3 or a set, so weird. Bah I still don't think I could fold this but it's a pretty interesting spot.

[doppelganger]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all who cares? Thank you for the internet lingo update, I care about the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way to be a dick. His point is that to expect a villain to bet the turn so you can check/raise, you need him to show aggression on the flop. High turn aggression does not automatically mean he's going to bet when you check, especially when he's played the flop passively.

[Daniel LeClaire]

I don't really like the stack-a-donk line here. You bet into 4 people. If villain is competent at all he has to realize you have something. I would just bet the turn for value.

As played, I think river is a fold. I don't get people saying it's a call. Is a 20/16 ever shoving as a bluff here? That's pretty ballsy. Is he ever shoving worse, like 99? Probably <10%.

Yeah, your hand looks like a bluff, but if villain has a marginal hand (which is what he's represented so far) he's just calling. Why would he raise if he thinks you're bluffing? It's more likely that he slowplayed to trap.

[Profish2285]

[ QUOTE ]
Way to be a dick. His point is that to expect a villain to bet the turn so you can check/raise, you need him to show aggression on the flop. High turn aggression does not automatically mean he's going to bet when you check, especially when he's played the flop passively.

[/ QUOTE ]

His first response was saying how I used the term stack a donk incorrectly. I dont need to be advised on internet lingo, so call me a dick if you like but I really dont care. I am so tired of peope nit picking the most stupid [censored]. I post a hand where I think it is a really tough spot and I have my terminology criticized? You gotta be kidding me. As far as the second part of villain not betting, that is a risk one takes by pulling this move. His stats suggest that he floats, the standard low flop af, higher turn af, low fold to c-bet. That was my reason for going for it, like I said originally.

[Profish2285]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the stack-a-donk line here. You bet into 4 people. If villain is competent at all he has to realize you have something. I would just bet the turn for value.

As played, I think river is a fold. I don't get people saying it's a call. Is a 20/16 ever shoving as a bluff here? That's pretty ballsy. Is he ever shoving worse, like 99? Probably <10%.

Yeah, your hand looks like a bluff, but if villain has a marginal hand (which is what he's represented so far) he's just calling. Why would he raise if he thinks you're bluffing? It's more likely that he slowplayed to trap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree with the part about not going for the stack a donk here though. Although his stats suggest he floats, which he definitely does, especially after seeing results of hand, I shouldnt have assumed he is going to bet the turn after I bet into 4 people. Normally I also agree about the river being a fold by my line looks so bluffy. The other problem is I have so much of my stack in there. I couldnt c/c in fear that he checks behind a weaker pp. I cant really b/f due to stack sizes, so I figured my only option was b/c at the time.

[doppelganger]

Look man, I think you post some interesting hands and your strategy advice is very sound. I respect your game and your opinion. However, this is at least the 2nd time in a month that you have lashed out at somebody in the forum for not focusing on the issues you want to discuss. Lighten up, ok? The guy wasn't trying to criticize your terminology, he was trying to express why he didn't think a c/r was the proper play in this situation, which differs significantly from a standard stack-a-donk situation in that the flop was not raised and the pot is still small enough that villain would not necessarily be committed by his turn bet even if it occurred.

Anyway, I agree that the river is a tough spot. You've obviously under-repped your hand at this point, so an observant opponent very well could be bluff raising here hoping for a fold. He could be doing this with A8 possibly as well. As played I would probably call and puke in my mouth after seeing him flip over a 3.

[Profish2285]

Im really not trying to be an ass, I honestly just dont see the point of someone talking about the words I use to describe a situation. I think its completely irrelevant and a waste. Its like the same post as when someone has two or three major decisions to make and the person says "fold pf." Well thank you for that insight, but assuming we didnt fold pf, what do we do now? It may seem like a side note but whenever I even say fold pf, I make sure to say what I would have done assuming I dont. A post about my terminology is about as useful as a fold pf to me. The second part of the post is fine but the first part is just nit picking imho. Oh and if I lashed out at someone else it was probably for a decent reason. I dont just go off on people but if someone is posting a hand and it is clear what strategy is to be discussed, why even waste your time talking about something completely different? When I see people post like that it makes me think they have no idea what to do but just want to post something. If you dont know what to do then just say that but try anyway but dont go off on some tangent. Now I made a thread where I felt was fairly interesting into something that belongs in BBV.