huge pot, weird action

[soonerorlater]

Bellagio 15/30. Most players are new to me. MP can best be described as a dufus (very loose, aggressive at weird times, passive with good hands, etc.), CO is new to me but has been playing very aggressive for 2 orbits.

UTG limps, MP calls, CO and button call, I raise QhQs from the SB, BB 3-bets and all call.

Flop As Qd 2d. I check, BB bets, UTG raises, MP calls, CO calls, button folds, I 3-bet, all call.

Turn Kd. I check, BB and UTG check, MP bets, all call.

River Ts. All check to CO who bets. We're getting 21:1 on a call, 10.5:1 on a raise, and the word "chump" tattooed on our forehead for a fold. What's the best action.

Feel free to critique/blast my action on all streets. As I write this post they all seem debatable.

[Frond]

Some(me)like to cap Preflop with QQ.

Flop-I guess it's okay but more often than not I am leading out with my set. The new slowplay

Why did you check the turn? Just curious

Looks like you might get the silver or bronze here.

[StrictlyStrategy]

Cap this 400% of the time PF.

I'd CR doofus on the turn.

[surfdoc]

5 bet cap in vegas guys.

[Sunday Milliam]

With a premium hand like Q,Q sure I agree with capping preflop the large majority of the time.

However in a situation with the BB 3 betting and the field calling his raise, my hand has gone down in isolation value.

I want to think about the future outcome of me disguising my hand now to allow the BB raiser to feel comfortable raising my bet on the flop and thus thinning the field for both our hands. I just call the third bet.

Flop As Qd 2d, my action is to lead out with my set especially being that there is the money card the As, assuming that this card is definitely in the range of the BB hoping he will raise and get some of those gutshots out of the way.

If I do get the raise from the BB and say the CO now calls I can naturally assume that the CO is on the draw and the BB has big ace.

I again just call here instead of reraising, allowing the BB to take control of the betting and allowing me to check raise the next street.

The turn Kd presenting the flush/straight possibility, depending on the momentum of the hand and who is left, if I am getting an overall impression that the BB is looking to bet then I prefer a check raise here.

It also gives me the added knowledge of seeing the actions of the CO or whom else, who might have made their flush at this point without putting additional bets out yet.

If there is a reraise from say the CO then I just call hoping to fill. If there are flat calls behind the BB bet, I definitely check raise here for maximum value.

The river 10s, I make the appropriate check call on the river. Obviously hoping for the check down but also allowing the BB or CO the opportunity to bluff into the one card straight board.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
With a premium hand like Q,Q sure I agree with capping preflop the large majority of the time.

However in a situation with the BB 3 betting and the field calling his raise, my hand has gone down in isolation value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh...you should be capping here for value, since it will be difficult to make up those lost 2BB if you win this hand. Your isolation plan is a pipe dream.



[ QUOTE ]
I want to think about the future outcome of me disguising my hand now to allow the BB raiser to feel comfortable raising my bet on the flop and thus thinning the field for both our hands. I just call the third bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, when the flop comes J98 and you bet and he calls with his AK and everyone else calls...you are in no better position then you would've been had you capped. Or, the flop comes K74 and you bet and he raises and everyone folds...and now you need to figure out if he's full of crap or not. Or, the flop comes T87 (two flush) and you bet and he raises and two others call, and...

Basically, anyone with anything is going to have the odds to call two on the flop. You may well win a large pot, but you are going to get sucked out on a good part of the time, assuming you aren't behind already. Just cap PF when you probably have a solid edge.

[The Dude]

Make it 4bets before the flop, for all the reasons chesspain gave. This would obviously lead to a bet on the flop instead of a checkraise, but whatever.

Bet the turn. There's no reason to think you're behind yet.

Call the river, the pot's too big to fold.

[*TT*]

as played its an easy river call. But you also missed the turn bet.

The hand should have gone 4-bet pre flop, bet flop. Yes Vegas is a 5-bet cap but its not a concern, get the money in the hand now.

[soonerorlater]

Yeah, looking back on the hand I think a 4-bet was in order. I couldn't pull the trigger at the time b/c the BB's 3-bet in that spot is rarely less the Q's (BB is unknown to me, older white guy. Probably should have included that in original post) I tend to give that type of unknown player a little more credit then they deserve.

I probably bet any other turn besides the Kd. My read on the BB was A's or K's, plus the K fills in JT and diamonds. With 2 players cold calling the flop I felt like 1 of these draws just got there. My plan was to let the BB lead the turn and reevaluate when it got back to me.

[jskills]

I cap PF.

I bet out the flop and don't mind getting raised by BB one bit. I 3-bet when he does and hopefully lose others in this hand.

The turn is pretty ugly for you given the number of people in the hand still. If you were HU vs the BB, it might be a great card vs AK. Anyway, given all the people in the hand, I think we're assuming the flush has a decent possibility of already getting there. Betting and getting raised by someone other than BB (since AK is a possibility to consider for him) would pretty much tell you if you should fold the river UI or not.

When the river brings a straight, I think your goose is cooked and a fold seems right, especially with people behind you. Although my feeling is that no one is going to raise the river anyway. Calling is probably what I'd end up doing since we just don't know anyone at the table. Odds look slim, but pot is big.

The problem is what the CO in this hand has. What kind of hand does he overlimp and then call 2 more bets with when back to him PF? KJs? AJ?

This is a tough hand in the late streets for sure.