JJ set, tricky board, multiway

[RustedCorpse]

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $24.65
CO: $24
BTN: $31.05
SB: $44.65
BB: $24.25
Hero (UTG): $25.40

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, MP calls $0.85, CO folds, BTN calls $0.85, SB folds, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="red">MP bets $3</font>, BTN calls $3, BB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, MP calls $5, BTN calls $5

Turn: ($27.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $16.55 and is All-In</font>, MP calls $15.80 and is All-In, BTN calls $16.55

River: ($76.40) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results below in white: $76.40 Pot ($3 Rake)<font color="white">
MP showed Ah As (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$24.65 NET)
BTN showed Ts Qs (a straight, King high) and WON $73.40 (+$48 NET)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Jacks) and LOST (-$25.40 NET) </font>


So I'm about 3k hands into my NL trial and already down about 5 buy-in's. I know I'm probably calling a little more than I should, but I also really don't seem to be getting paid off at all. That is one reason I didn't straight shove on the flop. On one hand I feel I'm results oriented, on the other, I really question my push on the turn in a multiway pot.

[villains_hero]

This looks like a nice spot to bet the flop big and shove if raised.

[infinity235]

This hand is played fine. You even get the odds to draw to a boat as far as I can see....

[RustedCorpse]

Fire out $3.50 right off on the flop? If that's what you're saying I agree, I believe at the time I was expecting I would have to work for value, but in hindsight your line is great.

Generally what are your guidlines for when you bet big on the flop? I really feel that I'm getting no action except when I'm beat.

[villains_hero]

I vote for betting as the best way to work for value, especially when you have close to the nuts (but vulnerable) and the board is likely to have hit your opponents also.

A general guideline would be that on dry boards you often should bet less than on wet boards, but of course every situation is specific. Maybe your problem of not getting paid isnt related to the strength of your bets but to the frequency of your cbets.

[BadBigBabar]

flop cr should be bigger
but i just bet the flop

[Surf]

if your opponents are aggressive the flop c/r is nice. It gives away the strength of your hand a bit, but these guys won't care.

Flop cr needs to be bigger tho, like 12-15. You have not been getting paid because your opponents have not had hands to pay you. They are not folding their hands to a $15 but calling an $8 one.

You need to build the pot when you hit. The turn is just a beat after they call $15.

Surf