|
|
#11
10-23-2007, 08:36 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
You're the one who feels you have the right to use force to disrespect other people's right to enough food, clean water, shelter, so on. [/ QUOTE ] Nope. [ QUOTE ] You don't think they have this right? [/ QUOTE ] Sure they do have the right to a means to aquire these things. Sorry for spoiling whatever point you were trying to make. [ QUOTE ] How is that any different from your feelings about property rights? lol let me guess, because you're right and they're wrong? [/ QUOTE ] I never said it was any different. [ QUOTE ] So you feel that people have private property rights and these can be enforced with the use of force if needed. [/ QUOTE ] If people are forcing their way onto that person's property to violate those rights, yes. [ QUOTE ] other people can be forced to provide it [/ QUOTE ] And there we see who's the one initiating force and therefore isn't an anarchist. 
|
|
#13
10-23-2007, 08:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You don't think they have this right? [/ QUOTE ] Sure they do have the right to a means to aquire these things. Sorry for spoiling whatever point you were trying to make. [/ QUOTE ] That's not the same right. My point stands. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How is that any different from your feelings about property rights? lol let me guess, because you're right and they're wrong? [/ QUOTE ] I never said it was any different. [/ QUOTE ] So you'd call copernicus an anarchist as well? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So you feel that people have private property rights and these can be enforced with the use of force if needed. [/ QUOTE ] If people are forcing their way onto that person's property to violate those rights, yes. [ QUOTE ] other people can be forced to provide it [/ QUOTE ] And there we see who's the one initiating force and therefore isn't an anarchist. [/ QUOTE ] Sigh. In the case of you forcing people off "your property", you are also the one initiating the force. The only difference is you accept your right to have private property, and you don't accept people's universal right to a decent standard of living. As soon as you allow the use of force to enforce some law that you've made up (like this law about unlimited right to private property and control over your private property, or a law that guarantees everyone a decent standard of living), you are not a real anarchist.
|
|
#14
10-23-2007, 08:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
Sigh. In the case of you forcing people off "your property", you are also the one initiating the force. [/ QUOTE ] No, I'm not. Do you not believe in any form of property at all? By your "logic" if someone steals my bicycle and I try to stop them, I'm the one initiating force. Just because you happen to not believe in land property (which I question as most of those I've talked to about this in the past have shown they actually do) doesn't make this terrible logic valid. [ QUOTE ] you don't accept people's universal right to a decent standard of living. [/ QUOTE ] I already told you I do, so stop repeating this lie. [ QUOTE ] As soon as you allow the use of force to enforce some law that you've made up (like this law about unlimited right to private property and control over your private property, [/ QUOTE ] The only laws involved in this is the laws of nature. It's a natural right. Animals do it, people do it. It's part of nature.
|
|
#15
10-23-2007, 08:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You don't think they have this right? [/ QUOTE ] Sure they do have the right to a means to aquire these things. Sorry for spoiling whatever point you were trying to make. [/ QUOTE ] That's not the same right. My point stands. [/ QUOTE ] How is it different?
|
|
#17
10-23-2007, 09:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
The universal right to some standard of living [/ QUOTE ] If you can't even define what "some" standard of living is, how can you call it a right? A load of bread and an apple a day? A porche and a plasma TV? What is "some" standard of living?
|
|
#18
10-23-2007, 09:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Sigh. In the case of you forcing people off "your property", you are also the one initiating the force. [/ QUOTE ] No, I'm not. Do you not believe in any form of property at all? By your "logic" if someone steals my bicycle and I try to stop them, I'm the one initiating force. Just because you happen to not believe in land property (which I question as most of those I've talked to about this in the past have shown they actually do) doesn't make this terrible logic valid. [/ QUOTE ] I believe in property to the degree people agree to respect it. If someone steals your bicycle, you don't have a right to use force to stop him. You do however have the right to tell people that he took it (and prove it to them). If you live in a community where it's widely accepted that what he did was wrong, he will regret that he took your bicycle when people don't want to deal with him anymore. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As soon as you allow the use of force to enforce some law that you've made up (like this law about unlimited right to private property and control over your private property, [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The only laws involved in this is the laws of nature. It's a natural right. Animals do it, people do it. It's part of nature. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Animals and people do a lot of things. Is it you who loves to say statists support rape? Well, animals and people do that.
|
|
#19
10-23-2007, 09:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Are you a pacifist? If not then so do you. [/ QUOTE ] Yes I'm a pacifist. Except for in cases of self defence [/ QUOTE ] Do you or do you not consider defense of property "self defense"?
|
|
#20
10-23-2007, 09:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Got a PM about \"Natural Rights\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The universal right to some standard of living [/ QUOTE ] If you can't even define what "some" standard of living is, how can you call it a right? A load of bread and an apple a day? A porche and a plasma TV? What is "some" standard of living? [/ QUOTE ] I don't call it a right. I say some people do, and it makes just as much sense as you claiming unlimited private property rights is some God given rule.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
