HU SNG Discussion in STTF

[Collin Moshman]

Hi Guys,

I'm sure posters here have significantly more experience in post-flop play than the average STTFer. But I wanted to mention that I started a thread in STTF advocating push/fold SNGers to try playing HU SNGs to improve their post-flop skills. Then I give some initial strategy advice. If anyone wants to jump in, the thread is at:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post11150168

Best Regards,
Collin

[Indiana]

Colin,

Pure HU is so different than SNGs that I just know how much it will really help. I mean it will help in all forms of poker to learn HU, but focusing on good push/fold is the key to SNGs. HU is so different bro, and early play is where u get a lot of your advantage. The end game is pretty close to the ICM endgame (actually identical) that you guys use in STTF, except that we use SAGE game theory rather than ICM with hand ranges.

I've been a big winnner at both SNGs and HU, and I play HU almost exclusively so ask me anything u like.

Indy

[cwar]

I posted in your thread Collin.

I was really stunned to see a lot of very skewed thinking over their, it really doesnt seem like they are getting your point about maximizing expectation they seem very content to just focus on the large stuff (understanding ICM) that will affect their winrate the most so it seems like your ideas may be dismissed.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
Pure HU is so different than SNGs that I just know how much it will really help.

[/ QUOTE ]
This depends a *lot* on how big the stacks compared to the blinds when it gets to the last two players.

I don't play nearly as many STTs as I do HUSNGs, but from what I've seen, it's not at all unusual to get down to the final two (at least in $20-$50 STTs, I haven't played anything higher than that) with the players having an average of 15-20 big blinds, or even more if the table's been a little crazy, or there have been a lot of big hand-over-hand confrontations.

That's still deep enough for smart heads-up play to be a big win over any sort of push-or-fold, and anybody who has played a lot of HUSNGs should have a pretty sizable advantage over somebody whose only heads-up experience is when they make it to the final 2. And if it does get down to 2 deeper than 20bbs, many regular STT players are so far out of their element that you should have a *huge* advantage.

When I do make it heads-up in a STT, I would guess that I'm taking first 75% of the time, and 2nd 25% of the time, purely due to the fact that I play so many HUSNGs.

[bbbushu]

HU NL sounds fun

but alas i love limit

free coaching or something? lol

[Austiger]

If you want to get good at playing postflop in the early levels (when almost all of the postflop play takes place) play cash games. You get tons of practice playing postflop and putting ppl on ranges based on their position, stats, action, etc. Playing HU is only going to give you realistic practice at playing HU postflop.

TNixon- You can't win 75% of the SNGs that you make HU. 60% would be insane good.

[TNixon]

You're right. 75% was an overestimate. (and a pretty big one at that, although it certainly did feel like that was about the right number)

After actually running stats though, I have taken first twice as often as I've taken second, so I've won about 66% of the time when I get heads-up, which is something I attribute directly to playing so many heads-up tourneys. I've also taken second a bit more than third.

Other than that, though, my STT stats are pretty average. ITM about 35% of the time, which is just barely over the 33% I guess you're supposed to shoot for. (haven't done a ton of reading on STT theory though)

But we're not talking about a huge sample size here, either. 385 STTs total, 108 heads-up confrontations, 71 first, 37 second, 27 third.

Taking first 60% when making it to the final 2 might be insane good for somebody who focuses mainly on STTs, but I would expect that anybody who frequents HUSNGs to have a big edge in the final 2.