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#321
03-20-2007, 04:48 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the purpose of raising with AK was to reduce the field and take the initiative in the hand? Not really to build a pot... (though you will get called by weaker aces often especially at the lower limit sit and gos so it ends up being a value raise) Aren't you giving up both of those things if you just limp AK? If you advocate limp/calling a raise with AK, wouldn't it be better to just raise in the first place? If you hit your pair on the flop and someone is playing back at you in a 4 or 5 handed pot are you really prepared to felt it? It just seems pretty flawed to limp AK from any position early in the sit and go with a full table... I could see making an argument for action limping it vs aggressive opponents later in the tournament, but that's a different story.. [/ QUOTE ] the thought process i think is that people are very likely to limp behind w/ weaker aces/kings (more so than they will call raises with it) and they will often put a lot of chips in after the flop if they pair the A or K, and w/ shallow stacks it wont be hard to get lots of money in when you hit/ you wont lose money c-betting (which is +cEV but not enough so that it makes up for the decreasing value of chips). 
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#322
03-20-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pudge, someone in manchild's BBV thread responded w/ some pretty bad logic so i called them a [censored] idiot. This person then responded w/ a HU challenge and called me a low-limit sng monkey. So obv i accepted b/c of their [censored] logic and the fact i had never heard of them + assumed they played micro stakes etc. Turns out that hes a significant winner at 3/6 and 5/10 NL HU games on FTP. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] whats the correct line here? (he also wanted to play 4 tables of 3/6 and i just moved up to 1/2, but kee in mind pasterbator coached me so im ahead of most 1/2 players in terms of skill IMO. also inyaface did 1 coaching session with us so im pretty sure that alone significantly boosts my EV right?) [/ QUOTE ] Ya I read that thread. If you are uncomfortable playing out of your roll don't do it so you can win an internet dick waving contest. Also HU play is very very different from 6 max play it depends if you are comfortable playing HU. Make an offer you are comfortable with if he rejects whatever, nothing really lost except an internet dick waving contest. [/ QUOTE ] yeah i was torn b/w not playing and telling him my screen name was "rigged4me" and asking if we could play 10/20 instead. thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] Rigged4me is a fish I would play him hu 10/20. <font color="white">this is obviously sarcastic, but I hate using emoticons. I also hate typing in white so there we go. </font>
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#323
03-20-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I thought the purpose of raising with AK was to reduce the field and take the initiative in the hand? Not really to build a pot... (though you will get called by weaker aces often especially at the lower limit sit and gos so it ends up being a value raise) Aren't you giving up both of those things if you just limp AK? If you advocate limp/calling a raise with AK, wouldn't it be better to just raise in the first place? If you hit your pair on the flop and someone is playing back at you in a 4 or 5 handed pot are you really prepared to felt it? It just seems pretty flawed to limp AK from any position early in the sit and go with a full table... I could see making an argument for action limping it vs aggressive opponents later in the tournament, but that's a different story.. [/ QUOTE ] the thought process i think is that people are very likely to limp behind w/ weaker aces/kings (more so than they will call raises with it) and they will often put a lot of chips in after the flop if they pair the A or K, and w/ shallow stacks it wont be hard to get lots of money in when you hit/ you wont lose money c-betting (which is +cEV but not enough so that it makes up for the decreasing value of chips). [/ QUOTE ] This assumes alot about your opponents and I think you are going to get stacked alot more often by someone who flops two pair than you are stacking them with a weak ace/king... Even donkeys can fold a weak ace when they are getting played back at hard. You arent only getting weak Ax and Kx limping behind you , but all kinds of other crap as well that might flop a very strong hidden hand. Also alot of them (especially at lower limits) are still going to make bad calls preflop with weaker aces and kings. Plus by raising you have a chance to win the pot even if you dont hit your pair.
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#324
03-20-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
I thought the purpose of raising with AK was to reduce the field and take the initiative in the hand? Not really to build a pot... (though you will get called by weaker aces often especially at the lower limit sit and gos so it ends up being a value raise) Aren't you giving up both of those things if you just limp AK? If you advocate limp/calling a raise with AK, wouldn't it be better to just raise in the first place? If you hit your pair on the flop and someone is playing back at you in a 4 or 5 handed pot are you really prepared to felt it? It just seems pretty flawed to limp AK from any position early in the sit and go with a full table... I could see making an argument for action limping it vs aggressive opponents later in the tournament, but that's a different story.. [/ QUOTE ] I never said I limp from any positions. Most of you edge comes in the later game so preserving chips so you can do well in late game is very important. Once you limp it doesn't get raised behind you that often and when you hit you will often be bet into with a hand which is often best. If you get three bet you will need to fold a lot, also if a good regular raises you can probably fold AK. Futuredoc's post is very good and sums it up well.
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#325
03-20-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Pudge, someone in manchild's BBV thread responded w/ some pretty bad logic so i called them a [censored] idiot. This person then responded w/ a HU challenge and called me a low-limit sng monkey. So obv i accepted b/c of their [censored] logic and the fact i had never heard of them + assumed they played micro stakes etc. Turns out that hes a significant winner at 3/6 and 5/10 NL HU games on FTP. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] whats the correct line here? (he also wanted to play 4 tables of 3/6 and i just moved up to 1/2, but kee in mind pasterbator coached me so im ahead of most 1/2 players in terms of skill IMO. also inyaface did 1 coaching session with us so im pretty sure that alone significantly boosts my EV right?) [/ QUOTE ] Ya I read that thread. If you are uncomfortable playing out of your roll don't do it so you can win an internet dick waving contest. Also HU play is very very different from 6 max play it depends if you are comfortable playing HU. Make an offer you are comfortable with if he rejects whatever, nothing really lost except an internet dick waving contest. [/ QUOTE ] yeah i was torn b/w not playing and telling him my screen name was "rigged4me" and asking if we could play 10/20 instead. thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] lol Pudge, Here is my question while basically grunching this thread: With all of the ridiculously good poker players you have the ability to talk to, what keeps you (mostly) playing SNGs over ring games?? Do you have a plan to switch over soon? Don't you have a twin bother? Who came out first?! Who's prettier? Do you know he plays ring games? Who makes more money? Who do your parents like better? Who does Inyaface like better? When was the last time you heard a funny canadian joke? I'll have more later.
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#326
03-20-2007, 04:57 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
Sorry I phrased that wrong...
By "any position" I meant Early OR Late position. Right now I still dont agree with the EP limp but I'll check out that thread and see if it enlightens me to something.. edit: Yeah I still dont see the logic here. Limping because we are afraid of a 3-bet or because we want to induce action from weaker aces on the flop seems alot worse than raising in the first place. You likely have the best hand, and will still get called by weaker hands. Chip preservation is good, but if you take down the pot (which you are going to more often than not) it's even better. I'll ask my previous question again: If you're getting played back at in a 3-4 handed limped pot with TPTK are you really prepared to felt it? I think you're setting yourself up to lose alot more chips than you stand to gain by limping and hoping someone else limps with a weaker ace and puts in a few bets on the flop. I'd just like to add that I don't think limping AK from EP in L1-2 is a devastating mistake by any means... I just do not believe it to be the most optimal play in most standard situations.
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#327
03-20-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: The Well: Pudge714
[ QUOTE ]
With all of the ridiculously good poker players you have the ability to talk to, what keeps you (mostly) playing SNGs over ring games?? [/ QUOTE ] Considering that the future is limited, I would rather make money know than learn a new game and than be forced to play in less profitable games when/if the legislations goes through. I have never really grinded I have probably played like 5-6k SNGs lifetime. I want to just grind and build up a bankroll before switching. I also hate playing cash because there are spots where I don't know what to do. [ QUOTE ] Do you have a plan to switch over soon? [/ QUOTE ] Ya. Depending on the Party, I will switch after a big MTT cash or after the summer. Assuming I make money in the summer. [ QUOTE ] Don't you have a twin bother? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. [ QUOTE ] Who came out first?! [/ QUOTE ] Me [ QUOTE ] Who's prettier? [/ QUOTE ] Me [ QUOTE ] Do you know he plays ring games? [/ QUOTE ] Yes [ QUOTE ] Who makes more money? [/ QUOTE ] I might have a higher hourly, but he runs super good deep in donkaments. [ QUOTE ] Who do your parents like better? [/ QUOTE ] Me, though they wouldn't admit it. [ QUOTE ] Who does Inyaface like better? [/ QUOTE ] Me, but he won't admit it. [ QUOTE ] When was the last time you heard a funny canadian joke? [/ QUOTE ] In the Christmas Time in Canada episode of South Park "Changing your mind is a noble Canadian tradition"
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