30/60 hilo river play

[Johnny#5]

I like the river bet, you will get crying calls from weaker high hands fairly frequently. He will just call with tens up because your board is scary as hell to him and he knows you very likely have either a low or aces up. This is, IMO, a super easy value bet on the end because your board protects you from raises and forces him to play very honestly.

When he raises here you're screwed every time. Unless he is a complete idiot he's never bluffing this river, and two pair for him here is a bluff. He has at least a straight here almost always. I think this is an easy fold on the end and I would have played it the same way.

[Andy B]

Checking the river is not horrid, and I think it's probably the best play. The other guy appears to be on a draw. In that case, he'll raise when he gets there and fold when he doesn't, so your bet doesn't stand to gain much. Checking gives you the chance to snap off a bluff. Checking and calling costs the same amount as your line, but without costing you the pot.

If you really think he called this whole way with a pair of Tens or something, then sure, bet the river. Against decent opposition, I think checking is better. When he raises, however, I think there's almost no chance that your hand is good.

[mmcd]

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If you bet, you'll usually be winning one or zero bets when you have best hand and losing two when you have the worst hand.

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Calling a raise on this river is borderline retarded. The pot isn't all that big, and you have 4 low cards, a paired doorcard, and an A on your board. No sane player will bluff raise you on the river here. Ever.

[2461Badugi]

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Checking the river is pretty horrid.

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I think that's quite an overstatement. Any hand that's likely to call the river here (anything that beats 8's up) is just as likely to valuebet the river when checked to.

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Anyone who will fold one pair > 8 to a bet here, or bet two pair when checked to, should be instantly buddy-listed.

[mmcd]

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Checking the river is pretty horrid.

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I think that's quite an overstatement. Any hand that's likely to call the river here (anything that beats 8's up) is just as likely to valuebet the river when checked to.

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Anyone who will fold one pair > 8 to a bet here, or bet two pair when checked to, should be instantly buddy-listed.

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1 pair will never scoop here, so a guy with a pair of 10s will be getting 3.75-1 to call against a totally live 8A84 board.

And if someone with that board bets the whole way, and then checks the river, there hand is going to be 8's up no low or something like wired 10s or 9s like 95% of the time. The only reason that board would check here would be to get a freeshown out of better hands or induce a bluff from busted draws. He has a hand that has nothing to gain by betting. Js up will scoop any such hand.

[Bartholow]

If you're already pretty sure you don't like villain's play, why do you need to call and see what he has?

[getfunky]

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my reasoning for betting river was that i thought he would usually pay off with something like jacks up or tens up, and i didnt think he would raise without trips or better

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I totally agree, the key to this hand is your board - were it weaker with the aces up you could check call since it would be easier to induce a bluff and you would have to call a raise. Unless your oppponent is a reckless idiot, you can bet/fold with confidence with such a strong 2-way board.

[Brad1970]

I'd check/call the river if I thought I had a possible winner but fully expecting to lose. It's only 1 more bet. If you fold, he gets the entire pot without a fight & without showing his cards.

But, what do I know. I haven't seriously played hi/lo in probably 15 years. So, I'm a little rusty.

[Lt Barclay]

well, like i said, it's not the main reason i would call, but the info is a bonus i can use to exploit his play in the future.

[Pokerlicious]

Your line is fine. There is no way he can raise your board without beating aces up.

Checking the river would be nuts. Since you're not going to pay off a raise because of your board, it will never cost you more than one bet. There are three possible situations:

1 - your opponent has been calling all the way with two pair and will pay off on the end. You gain a bet.

2 - your opponent is on a draw and misses but catches something like a pair of tens or jacks. He can beat your board and calls your bet hoping you have 8's up, or that he gets his money back if you have a low and 8's only. You gain a bet.

3 - he fills or makes his draw and raises you. Unless he is completely insane, there is no way he can raise your board without a hand that beats aces up. Fold.

I submit that the combined likeliness of 1 & 2 is quite a bit higher than 3.

On the other hand, if you check the river, with your board your opponent is rarely going to bet. Sure if he hits his draw he'll bet and you call, and you lose the same bet as in #3 above. But he will never bet in situation 2, and almost no opponent will bet in situation 1. So by checking you lose the same in situation 3 but you rarely get the extra bets from situations 1 or 2.