40/80 K10s hand

[jkamowitz]

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checking this flop is dumb, and by dumb i mean so fundamentally wrong that i can't believe i am seeing it.

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he will bet if checked to, and i saw him grabbing chips to bet so i c'r'd. normally i wouldnt make this kind of move but switching it up is okay too.

yes he's passive but if i see someone holding chips read to bet then let them when you flop a big hand.

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Nah sorry still dont' like. Just bet, + c/r gives your hand away a lot more. It also cost you this pot. pps. Dont' bet that river. He should've raised and then you'd poop.

[34TheTruth34]

it sounds like you can check-fold this river UI against this particular opponent

[vmacosta]

Look, I know that OP is not very popular on this forum, but some of these posts are being unfair. If OP is 100% sure that this guy will bet the flop, then c/r'ing is by far the best play due to the enormity of his hand, his perfect relative position to the better, etc.

But as others have pointed out, you usually can't rely on the ol' chips-out-ready-to-fire tell. We weren't there, but we've all whiffed trying to get greedy before, and this hand is not one where you wanna whiff.

Anyway, you were right and you indeed did get the c/r in. So now your line is extremely weird--unlike what one poster said, your hand is NOT well-defined and you look like you might be on some sort of ill-advised bluff, since its already HU by the time you get to c/r. Therefore, in my opinion, the best possible line after being raised on the turn is to call this suspicious, possible resteal down UI. Donking the river is letting a bluffer too easily off the hook and your hand usually only beats a bluff.

[DeathDonkey]

Hate the river donk, I like a check/fold given villain's description. About the flop checkraise...if he is the type of guy to bet when you check to him I prefer to bet the flop and checkraise the turn. I think people have a subconscious twitch that kicks in when the preflop raiser checks the flop (rightfully so) and even poor playing loose passive regulars will realize something is up.

-DeathDonkey

[alleatoryage]

The turn raise definately does suck after your flop checkraise.
After all that, I would probably check/call the river, as it hurts my feelings when I get raised there. I guess it depends on how passive he actually is...
the safe move is c/c, but you MAY lose a bit of value if:

1) He'll cold-call with something like A7 preflop
2) Call with 66, 99-QQ but not raise preflop

eh.

[jkamowitz]

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Hate the river donk, I like a check/fold given villain's description. About the flop checkraise...if he is the type of guy to bet when you check to him I prefer to bet the flop and checkraise the turn. I think people have a subconscious twitch that kicks in when the preflop raiser checks the flop (rightfully so) and even poor playing loose passive regulars will realize something is up.

-DeathDonkey

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This is good, real good.

[andyfox]

Well, you give it a way by talking of this hand leading to your demise, and telling us the results, but looking at it objectively:

You have a TAG image, you raise preflop, you check-raise the flop and bet the turn. A passive guy raises this action on the turn. Now you donk the river? Can your hand ever be good here?

"he may have seen the flop c/r as a semi-bluff and decided to get frisky. he's passive and weak.. but hes certainly not an idiot"

But he wouldn't have bet the flop without a hand. He's passive and weak. Especially if, as you say, he knows you play aggressively post-flop, he would have been wary, with a weak hand, of a check-raise (and if not from you, perhaps from the big blind). As you say, he's certainly not an idiot (his river call notwithstanding).

[shemp]

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Look, I know that OP is not very popular on this forum, but some of these posts are being unfair.

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I really don't get the hate for the flop c/r.

I don't do it, but if you've ever set up a check fold on the river, this is it. And betting out is a big surprise.

[Bill King]

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Well, you give it a way by talking of this hand leading to your demise, and telling us the results, but looking at it objectively:

You have a TAG image, you raise preflop, you check-raise the flop and bet the turn. A passive guy raises this action on the turn. Now you donk the river? Can your hand ever be good here?

"he may have seen the flop c/r as a semi-bluff and decided to get frisky. he's passive and weak.. but hes certainly not an idiot"

But he wouldn't have bet the flop without a hand. He's passive and weak. Especially if, as you say, he knows you play aggressively post-flop, he would have been wary, with a weak hand, of a check-raise (and if not from you, perhaps from the big blind). As you say, he's certainly not an idiot (his river call notwithstanding).

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andy what do you suggest in your opinion you would play this? there are several lines you could, betting the flop seems very standard from everybody.. but say we bet the flop and he calls, and he raises my turn bet.. you call and the river is a blank, you're probably paying off a bet, correct?

[Bill King]

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The turn raise definately does suck after your flop checkraise.
After all that, I would probably check/call the river, as it hurts my feelings when I get raised there. I guess it depends on how passive he actually is...
the safe move is c/c, but you MAY lose a bit of value if:

1) He'll cold-call with something like A7 preflop
2) Call with 66, 99-QQ but not raise preflop

eh.

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yeah thats what i thought his range could be.. very large.

i bet the river, it was probably bad, b/c once he raises the turn i'm probably beat.. and he probably wouldnt raise w/ QQ here basically ever.. ehh is right