10/20 - KK - semi-bluffing top set

[vmacosta]

[ QUOTE ]
but you said in your OP "Not just folding hearts but his air?"

which imo is a good question. because he isn't folding a heart. so he can know that you should know that he should know what he should know, and at the end of the day, he's gonna say "oh well let's see those nuts."

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I agree with this. However, if we think his air includes lots of straight draws AND his line is so FOS that air makes up a big part of his range then I like a 3-bet anyhow.

Still wouldn't have put in the first bet though.

[XXsooted]

[ QUOTE ]
Any value in making him spew on the river if he does happen to have A hearts and he caps me on the turn, then the baord pairs?


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If he has the Ah, he probably will put you on air on the turn, since most players with your line have the Ah or air. After he caps the turn and bets the river, if the river pairs I don't see how he could 3bet, because it's not like he thinks you're gonna show up with the Qh.

[Raist0000]

excellent answer ilovepoker, like nearly all of your posts, many thanks!

[sweetjazz]

Zt first I thought this hand was really easy, but it's actually a bit subtle. First the decision to bet the turn when checked to is read dependent. That said, a lot of players will check the turn with a hand like Jx (no heart) hoping to get to showdown cheaply. Even if 8x is folding, you're not unhappy to get rid of a hand that has 9 outs to a chop.

I think the problem with this hand is that his turn checkraise does not restrict his range to mostly flushes, but rather to a combination of the nut flush and air (leaning heavily toward the nut flush). I don't think people take this line with a worse flush and release it to further aggression.

So just call the turn c/r and if you don't improve on the river, assess whether or not to call a river bet (probably leaning toward calling and reluctantly getting pwned).

I really like villain's line if he had the Ah b/c it usually gets an extra bet out of almost all hands. It only loses a bet against a hand like AJ that would stubbornly call down the two late street bets but will either check behind the turn or bet/fold the turn when checked to.

[Heisenb3rg]

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Did you forget how to play poker? Youre assuming someone should know that you know something? This isnt Theory of Poker. This is real life poker. Youre not playing your best friend HU, youre playing some tricky lag online who doesnt care who you are let alone what you think. 99% of the time you go beyond the 3rd level online or in live play, you'll simply be leveling yourself and thats just a needless waste of your hard-earned money.

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Yes I forgot how to play poker [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I think this is what I needed to hear..
-200BB in 2 days and im playing terrible.. WAY too spewy and overagrsesive.

I find it funny you said "this isnt theory of poker" because in the moment I actually had a flash back to theory of poker where they recommended you can raise on boards like this and fold to a 3-bet since the only hand someone can re-raise you with is the nuts.

Ive taken somewhat similar lines as villain before with high, but non nut flushes and folded to a 3-bet against nitty players..

Thing was, my image was terrible at the time and he's probaibly not capable of the laydown.. My thought that I could fold out a high heart non ace is probabily LOL, which is crucial to the equation.

Do I win style points at least? I thought the idea was sexy, even tho it was wrong [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

He had QhQd, river obviously didnt pair, and he scooped the pot.

[Heisenb3rg]

BTW I prefer to wait to the turn with non heart overpairs here on avg.
I can push a much bigger equity edge on the turn with KK. I dont realy have to worry about a heart killing my action, because if it hits im in such rough shape that I want my action killed.. and dont want initiative in a bigger pot.

I still fast play flops like this a ton tho, 3-betting range is normally high flush draws, made flushes, 2pr+, top pair + flush draw.

[JDalla]

who was the player?