nl50 , folding AKo vs 3bet PF?

[Frawa]

MP - idiot who ran like 60/40 super aggro , stacked off against me few hands ago

SB - regular prolly 20/16, doing ok

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $121.50
UTG: $63.90
MP: $21.20
CO: $52.30
BTN: $21.50
SB: $60.90

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $2.50</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $8</font>, Hero?

i knew most of the times MP would stick his stack in , so this was push or fold to me , since calling 20$ missing flop and folding is meh

is there a fold ok? good ? bad?

MP will play any 2 here imo
SB knows this and will 3bet acordilgly to isolate him
so my problem is SBs range

if i 4bet/shove , MP will call 99% of the time , and SB gets pretty nice odds so i think he is priced to call even with the bottom end of his range

[Genz]

I think it's still a push and you'll get it HU vs MP very often. If SB realizes MP's style, he will 3bet with AJs, AQ, KQ, probably KJs, SCs etc. here and he will fold those hands to a push, I'm pretty sure.

[Hail Eris]

I'd raise to $22 and call a shove.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd raise to $22 and call a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't like that, actually. You want all the FE you can get and what are you going to do on the flop when you miss? And what are you going to be ahead of when you raise to 22, one calls all-in and one pushes? Nothing. Seriously. You don't want to call pushes with AK preflop. You want to be the one who is pushing. And yes, you are turning your AK into a bluff vs. SB, but that doesn't matter, because you are looking to pick up his dead money since he will be on a wider range than usually and won't be able to call the vast majority of the time. And against MP, you are generally in good shape given the description.

[Hail Eris]

Imo, 4betting $22 reps more strength than 4bet/shoving in this spot against a thinking player. He prob snapcalls with like JJ if you shove, but taking a flop with that hand and playing a dry sidepot when he has less than a PSB left is really threatening.

[Genz]

a) too sophisticated. People don't think a lot on 50NL. he most likely doesn't know what a dry side pot is. I am dead seriously about this.
b) you are going to miss 66% of the time. Do you really want to push on a Q hi flop, hoping he is [censored] his pants with TT, getting like 5:2? If you play like that, your money is going in anyway, so you might want to make sure that you see all 5 cards.

[researcher]

I would raise it up to 24-30. Only fear are AA,KK and SB would probably raise again preflop with that and then I can fold. When you raise SB 3-will prodably fold when theres not many hands he can play after you 4-bet hes 3-bet and he seems aggro so 4bet must be the right play because he will 3bet wide range of hands especially against mp so a 4-bet will prodably get you AI agaisnt mp.

[members_only]

[ QUOTE ]
Imo, 4betting $22 reps more strength than 4bet/shoving in this spot against a thinking player. He prob snapcalls with like JJ if you shove, but taking a flop with that hand and playing a dry sidepot when he has less than a PSB left is really threatening.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, shoving works a lot better. For one thing, you have more fe because your opponent knows he has no fe. (I guess if you make it $22 he is going to know that anyway as you've put half your stack in, but you might 4-bet smaller sometimes as well.) It's also unquestionably the best play if you're going to 4-bet AK because the fact that you get to see all five cards if called counts for more than any small difference in fe there might be. The only reason you'd want to make a smaller 4-bet would be if it suited your 4-betting range as a whole better. (Which I think would mean you were making a significant amount of light 4-bets.)

[TheChad]

read OP, rest - tl;dr

I def don't think mucking here is a bad option. It comes down to your read on the SB. If you feel like racing... vroom vroom. Else, you might consider tossing it.