Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games

[steamboatin]

[ QUOTE ]
MarkD,

I totally disagree. Apply the concepts in the book to the tighter players at lower limits, and you will see results.



[/ QUOTE ]

I sugest an adjustment to your sarcasm meter.

[dragon14]

The cover looks excellent from the picture. I'd like to see a Mathematics of Poker, Weighing the Odds, etc. quality book rather than the overly fat big print 2+2 titles that always seem to come out.

For some reason Mason's always talking about the extremely good quality and binding of 2+2 books. My copies of Mathematics of Poker and WTO have not fallen apart in spite of it's lack of that special 2+2 binding.

I think 2+2 puts out great books and I love Mason's writings, but I think that the look of a book like MOP or WTO far exceed 2+2's. 2+2 needs to step up and meet the new standard.

Also I think that many people would like an explanation of what the heck "Zobags" means. I've looked it up online and think that it refers to a type of bike messenger bag used in San Francisco but I would like clarification.

[MarkD]

Dragon,

I agree with the general premise that although Mason has always stated that the 2+2 book is of higher quality (and it is obviously better paper), I prefer the MOP and WTO style of book and think that it is actually more robust and will stand up better to wear and tear.

I actually hate Mathematics of Poker though, because the font is excessively small. I don't mind small font in general, but Mathematics of Poker seems to be excessively small. I will take the 2+2 style font over that any day.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
"One could also make the arguement that learning the skills to beat tough games might increase your winrate in easier games."

they could make that argument but it would be wrong. easy games require a significantly different skill set.

but that's not to say i dont think the book has a lot of merit, at least in theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, but will not debate it in this thread. understanding at poker at a very high level, including adjusting to your opponents, implied odds, judging when why and how to bluff, and situational hand values are skills needed for beating tough games.

They are also skills that will help beat easier games or help you beat them more.

[MicroBob]

The cover and feel of WTO is easily my favorite of all the poker books I've seen.
Looks and feels very profesional.

I rate it about a 9.
Most 2+2 books for cover and 'feel' I rate about a 5 or 6.


I agree that the cover of Stox's book looks much better.
The cover of NLHETP wasn't half-bad imo.

[dragon14]

NLHETP did have a nice looking cover but the centering of title was too far to the left and looked awkward. Just my two cents though.

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
The cover and feel of WTO is easily my favorite of all the poker books I've seen.
Looks and feels very profesional.

I rate it about a 9.
Most 2+2 books for cover and 'feel' I rate about a 5 or 6.


I agree that the cover of Stox's book looks much better.
The cover of NLHETP wasn't half-bad imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is WTO? I have about sixty poker books, but I don't recognize the acronym.

BTW, I like the "traditional" 2+2 covers, but I thought the cover to NLHTP was hideous, especially the back. I also think the paper on 2+2 books is unnecessarily thick.

[6471849653]

At 1-2 one can already face more or less better players and one needs to learn to play vs. one's own style and vs. players who are also something, maybe tighter or maybe more aggressive. One needs to learn to beat them.

At 2-4 the better players are more experienced and more accurate when playing vs. other similar players, so they will beat the decent players there, and one needs to learn to hold one's own there, and then with time to get an edge over most of them.

At middle limits 5-10 and 10-20 players seem plenty solid and more often than not it being hard to find loose player(s) from there; all too often one is there with only tighter players, so it's time to show the skills one has achieved at 2-4 and 3-6, where one should learn how to beat the tight(-aggressive) and more accurate players.

At 15-30 it may already look like that whatever one has achieved so far is of little use as the style is generally so different; one is already facing the high limit style, maybe more so when the small blind is $10. As it's the "lowest" limit there it should be beatable (like 2-4 and 3-6 are beatable), though I don't know but I could bet on that.

Next that high limit style keeps getting more accurate as the limits get higher, and with that the style(s) again get different, though still the high limit style but one may get beaten even if one can beat the lower high limit players as one is not playing against them anymore but against the players who beat them, that generally means one gets beaten; one again needs to learn to hold one's own, again vs. different style(s).

When there are loose players the game plays differently as long as the loose player is on the pot, and when he is not, it's basically what I call a tough game. But for the bigger boys it may not be what they call a tough game. But one will face all kinds of players at higher limits, and if one knows how to beat that style (one learns that at lower limits), then it's not only the high limit style one needs to learn to beat, though the "fish" always plays differently at different limits.

If one doesn't play in super tough games there must be a way to get an edge over other players there, and the lower the limit the easier it rates to be, and all that learning is not all wasted when one moves up and a part of the time faces similar opponents. Though it would be nice to start from 30-60, and I sure would have and would if I would have had the money.

[nextgenneo]

so i take it this is directed at limit

[7n7]

[ QUOTE ]
The cover and feel of WTO is easily my favorite of all the poker books I've seen.
Looks and feels very profesional.

I rate it about a 9.
Most 2+2 books for cover and 'feel' I rate about a 5 or 6.


I agree that the cover of Stox's book looks much better.
The cover of NLHETP wasn't half-bad imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

To add to the hijack, my copy of WTO has been to hell and back with nary a scratch.

I took NLHETAP, SSHE, HEFAP on a few business trips and they practically are falling apart. I actually used Party points to replace 2 of them.