$2.00 NLTRN value shoving a short opponent

Saxatilis · #1 07-24-2007, 10:14 AM

I use this strategy a lot, value-shoving a short opponent when you have a strong hand and at least a 2:1 chiplead makes it look like you are trying to bully them out and forces them to call with weaker or marginal hands or hope that their draw hits. Of course this depends on reads as well. Also, at what level does this strategy stop working? Here are a few examples:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t2020)
Button (t980)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button raises to t60, Hero raises to t150, Button raises to t240, Hero calls t90.

Flop: (t480) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t660, Button calls t660.

Turn: (t1800) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t1120 (All-In), Button calls t80 (All-In).

River: (t3000) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t1960

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kd 8h (three of a kind, eights).
Button has Kh 7h (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins t3000. 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t970)
Hero (t2030)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t90, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t180) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t120, Hero raises to t1940, BB calls t760 (All-In).

Turn: (t3000) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3000) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1940

Results in white below: 
BB has 7d Tc (one pair, tens).
Hero has Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins t3000. 

Note: This next hand was the first of the tournament and sharkscope showed a huge fish

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t1500)
BB (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls t10, BB checks.

Flop: (t40) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t40) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t20, Hero calls t20.

River: (t80) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets t40, Hero raises to t1400, BB raises to t1460, Hero calls t60 (All-In).

Final Pot: t3000

Results in white below: 
BB has 6h 4h (two pair, sixes and fours).
Hero has Qd 5d (straight, six high).
Outcome: Hero wins t3000.

checktheriver · #2 07-24-2007, 10:34 AM

I don't really like hand 1, the blinds are still low and I don't think 3-betting K8o and pushing middle pair is going to be profitable.

Hand 2 is ok I probably play it the same against most opponents.

Hand 3 is fine against huge calling stations, but most opponents will fold to your river raise. I think you should build a pot on the flop, you have a good draw and position.

dboy23 · #3 07-24-2007, 10:50 AM

hand 3 is yuck. You have a flush draw and gutshot on the flop, BET. on the turn you pick up 4 more outs, RAISE.

dboy23 · #4 07-24-2007, 10:51 AM

hand 2 is fine.

hand 1 I don't like pf at all. fold or just call his raise.

Saxatilis · #5 07-24-2007, 11:17 AM

In hand 1 villain had minraised everyhand and shown garbage i.e. j4o 29s etc. I had had enough and was playing back at him

dboy23 · #6 07-24-2007, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1 villain had minraised everyhand and shown garbage i.e. j4o 29s etc. I had had enough and was playing back at him

[/ QUOTE ]

whoops didnt see it was a minraise. still dont like committing alot of chips pf with K8 OOP.

PrimordialAA · #7 07-24-2007, 12:33 PM

umm... what about the gross overbet on the flop???? 660 into 480? you just pray he has the 8 or worse and don't leave yourself any room to react to a reraise, anything, I hate that, I mean 3/4 pot... pot, maybe... but 1.5 pot? come on