short handed on great table

[Stoo_Pot]

argh, just had a really frustrating session. I was playing against 4 opponents who were 50-60% vpip at .25/.5 stars and v low AF. I was roughly following a 6max chart but a few notches looser. I finished down about 30-40BB because I think I was being too aggressive and I think I had a really LAG image because of all my preflop aggression and continuation bets which I usually followed through with on the turn. My cards weren't great but they weren't terrible either. I just think I might have been bluffing the fish too much - just because I showed preflop aggression. I also had trouble isolating because the SB and BB didn't usually fold (should I even be isolating here when they are all very loose?).
I kept getting hands like this...

I'm MP with KTs
UTG limps, I raise, button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop
Q86 rainbow
check, check, I bet, call, call
Turn
3
check, check, I bet (wrong?), call, call

River
J
check, check, I check

One of them has a pair of 6s and one has K high.


MY blind stealing success was very low too.

Lets say you are OOP vs a player who follows this simple formula what should you do?

Plays 50% of hands.
Calls any raise preflop,
will call down with any pair, calls to river with any 2 but won't call a river bet without a pair.
Will only raise with 2 pair or better.
will always bet if checked to. (due to my lag image, i think i'm more enjoyable to them to bluff when I give up betting my unimproved cards on the river).

I just kept feeling like I was spewing all the time trying to bluff a calling station with overs or one over to the board on the flop. Should I check/fold more turns? Bet more rivers with nothing?

Is it still ok to steal from the button with something like A4o when the blinds are loose?

I felt like a maniac, and the way to beat a maniac is to play passive so they were pretty much countering me :/

[Xhad]

Hand 1, you have one over and two opponents, check the turn.

As far as blind stealing against loose players, try to "steal" with hands that can win showdowns UI. This can include things like A5o.

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/articles/article19

[NIX]

For your example hand, if the villains will call down with any part of the board, there is no sense betting the turn since there is a reasonable chance one of them has at least a pair and isn't going anywhere. Definite spew. On the other hand, if they are willing to call down with weak hands, when you make a hand like top pair, or second pair with a decent kicker, that's when you want to be putting all the bets in.

As for your questions, if the villian will autobet when checked to, but won't call river bets with nothing, if you have nothing hands with some showdown value (ace high), you don't want to bet those, but check/call. He will bet with a worse hand, but won't call a bet with a worse hand. Let him bluff at you.

Also, I would still steal with hands like A4o. Chances are you're ahead at the time, so you should be stealing, even thought it's more of a value bet. You'll probably be paid off if you can hit an ace, and at the very least, you have position throughout the hand.

[critikal]

I'd play the hand you posted the same way that you did.

Against the kind of opponent you described, how I play depends a little bit on what they do if you c/r them.. If they just call, I'd probably play just about any face card and any suited connector. On the flop I'd bet out every time, and fold to a raise (well, assuming I have worse than two pair). Then in most cases I'd check the turn, planning to fold if I have nothing, and raise with as little as a pair. After that again it depends on what he does when you check raise. If he doesn't bluff the river, just bet out, if he still does, then I'd usually c/c.

Typical line with something like KT on a Q 8 3 flop would be with a King or Jack hitting the turn would be Bet, c/r, c/c.

If they fold a lot to a c/r, I'd probably c/r the [censored] out of them UI until they start calling down, after that, I'd revert to the above strategy.

For SH in general I'd just pretend that the first X players had folded, and play accordingly. X is the number of people missing from a full ring game. Postflop I'd adhere to your normal strategy.

[lautzutao]

Check the turn, fold to a river bet UI.

As for your example, only bet when you hit the board. Let go of everything else. Read the Shorthanded PDF for a more indepth reason as to why you shouldn't jam overs against loose/passive players in shorthanded games. I'll post it later if I can find it online.

[raphet99]

You said it yourself - you can't steal if the blinds always call. So don't raise with any two - wait for a hand with some showdown value - High cards, PPs, etc. And value bet the crap out of them.

I also find with these kinds of players if anyone is still along after the flop I will check OOP (if I whiffed) and fold to a bet depending on pot odds. You won't fold anyone with a piece of it, yet they will never raise you. You are spewing from UTG or the blind in this case if you keep firing away.

[Stoo_Pot]

I think this has been asked before but I can't remember what the answer was.. If the blinds are loose, should you try to steal less or more? e.g. is QJs still ok? JTs? 33?
I thought that alot of the 'value' in raising from say, the cutoff was from buying the button and having the 20% chance or whatever that you'll win the blinds aswell. If you're going to get called by multiple opponents should you tend to stick to raising premium and big suited cards? e.g. If I have 66 I don't really want more than 1 caller, so if I can't limit the field by raising then should I consider a limp or a fold? Even hands with showdown value like A7o don't look too great when it's 3 to the flop because you're called by the SB and BB.
I'm not trying to whine about fish cos I don't care about them winning a few hands off me, I just care about playing the right strategy.

[lautzutao]

Loose players call; that's why they're loose. I'd be raising with hands as if 1 or 2 had limped ahead of me. There really isn't any value in a "steal".

[Hielko]

1. Isolating players is not possible when your raises aren't respected (read: players are loose)
2. Bluffing a calling station is not possible
3. Semi-bluffing a calling station is not possible

[Stoo_Pot]

[ QUOTE ]
Loose players call; that's why they're loose. I'd be raising with hands as if 1 or 2 had limped ahead of me. There really isn't any value in a "steal".

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok so would your open raising range from the button be something like 77+/ATo+/A2s+/KTs+/KJo+/QTs+/JTs?