software development question

[Raisinator]

Hello everybody,

I am thinking of writing a program that uses the funtionality of a program like sng wizard to give real time push/fold suggestions while you go along playing a sng on stars. I will write the program that does the calculations myself and will not use a 3rd party program.
I have looked at other poker assistant programs and i am wondering how they get their real-time info about position, blind sizes and hole cards.
There is some info that shows up when you have 'dealer messages: everything' turned on, but this does not show hole cards etc. in plain text.

Is there information available on how to read out this info?

Thx

[santoshjoseph]

i think to get real-time info, you need to do some kind of "screen-scraping" & then use optical character recognition software. it might be complex.

[Raisinator]

A program like poker-pal certainly does not use screen shaping, it works with every layout and even when the table is covered.
Any clues how they do it?

[Mr_Snood]

Capturing and analyzing the network traffic with WinPac or something, but i guess Juk knows more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

http://wiki.wireshark.org/WinPcap

[SixthSense]

[ QUOTE ]
Capturing and analyzing the network traffic with WinPac or something, but i guess Juk knows more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

http://wiki.wireshark.org/WinPcap

[/ QUOTE ]

The network traffic is (hopefully) encrypted. They probably use memory snooping, again, Juk knows more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jukofyork]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Capturing and analyzing the network traffic with WinPac or something, but i guess Juk knows more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

http://wiki.wireshark.org/WinPcap

[/ QUOTE ]

The network traffic is (hopefully) encrypted. They probably use memory snooping, again, Juk knows more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Not all sites encrypt their data, but most do. For example Pacific send their data in unencrypted ASCII packets (they don't even use a binary encoding - just plain ASCII values like "513383;345;3;34-1;2", etc) and WInPCap can be used to sniff at the packets. You can then use the TCP/IP "Sequence Number" and the packet length to make a local buffer to handle out-of-order packets.

For sites that do use SSL to encrypt the data they pass then you can always try hooking the output of SSL_Read(). I did try this a year or two ago for Party, but didn't have much luck with the idea... I only spent about 1/2 a day on it though and I think it would be possible with more work.


I'm afraid though (as much as I think software for online poker is a good thing) that "Real-time SNGWiz" type applications are where the line should be drawn when it comes to helper software. It's one thing to have real-time odds that you have to interpret; it's another thing entirely to be told that going all-in is worth $2.38 more than folding... It's just a bot with a human controller.

If you do want to make one of these then it seems that Stars is quite happy for you to use on their site, but if you make for other sites then I hope very much they have more foresight than Stars and ban such software.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[_dave_]

Juk,

[ QUOTE ]

"Real-time SNGWiz" type applications are where the line should be drawn when it comes to helper software. It's one thing to have real-time odds that you have to interpret; it's another thing entirely to be told that going all-in is worth $2.38 more than folding... It's just a bot with a human controller.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - this is a line that shouldn't be crossed, however (as proved in the "NL bots on Full Tilt" thread) ...

There is nothing legitimately wrong with a "bot with a human controller", and this bears repeating.

The main danger of the bot is 24/7 fleecing of the fish, across infinite tables.

A "bot with a human controller" faces the same "hungry and sleepy" limitations as a human flying solo, and is simply a formidable opponent, no? what distinguishes a "bot with a human controller" from say a Raptor or a Curtains (no idea if this is true) - a human than can calculate ICM in realtime?


But this is where I mus take issue with you:

[ QUOTE ]

If you do want to make one of these then it seems that Stars is quite happy for you to use on their site, but if you make for other sites then I hope very much they have more foresight than Stars and ban such software.


[/ QUOTE ]

Stars is without doubt the online poker room at the forefront of integrity. They draw the line at automated decision making AND action taking, which I believe is the designation of a bot.

Stars IMHO take great care in only enforcing rules which may be enforced equally, across the board. this is one of those scenarios - as is the much publicized "one player per hand" rule - which other sites claim to enforce (but don't) and stars do not, since it is impossible.

I assume the case is similar with realtime advisor applications.

To reiterate - I do not think these are a good development for the game, but so long as a tilted human has the ability to ignore the suggested EV of a decision I can live with them. And If a site came out against them, I'd want to be damn sure they would enforce it against ALL players, which is just not possible.

At least Stars are clear in their policy - I wish this were the case for the other major online sites.

[Raisinator]

Thanks for the input so far guys, this is very helpful already!

Any idea how a program like poker pal does it?