Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[BeerMoney]

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Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.

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Dude, try not to take this internet stuff too seriously. I tried saying that his instincts happened to be right.. I'm glad they were. I'm glad those low life's got rounds pumped into them, but I think you'd probably agree with me that its probably a good thing that most people don't handle themselves the way goetz did..

On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

[ChicagoTroy]

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Quite frankly, I think this legislative scheme gets it right. Property rights matter. This guy did the right thing by calling the police. It's certainly much more controversial, but I also think he did the right thing by trying to stop the thieves when it became clear that the police would not arrive in time to stop the crime. The only real question here is whether he should have pulled the trigger. In my view, he should have a right to do so if he subjectively felt threatened and if an objective observer would say his belief was reasonable. If the thieves lunged at him or headed towards him when he said stop, I submit that he did in fact feel threatened and that his belief is reasonable.

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This is really well-put and reflects exactly what I thought about it.

[Boris]

xorbie - he didn't leave the house with the intention of killing those two guys. He only killed after they lunged at him, allegedly.

[MuresanForMVP]

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Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.

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Dude, try not to take this internet stuff too seriously. I tried saying that his instincts happened to be right.. I'm glad they were. I'm glad those low life's got rounds pumped into them, but I think you'd probably agree with me that its probably a good thing that most people don't handle themselves the way goetz did..

On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

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How am taking it seriously? We're debating. Let's not forget you called him an "american hero". I'm just trying to debate the legality of his actions. fwiw, if the 4 were convicted felon low-lifes (though only one was a convicted felon) and they got killed, then I don't think it's much of a loss at all, but I'm trying to look at things in terms of what is lawful, not necessarily "right" or "desired".

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On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

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What would he get jail time for? Illegally concealed weapon? Unlikely he'd do time for that considering his circumstances. They probably wouldn't get much time, but I dont really agree that that makes it lawful to grease them. Make no mistake about it, if someone breaks into my house and threatens me, or my mom, or my brother, I'd have no qualms with putting 7.62mm of burning hot lead right through their skull, but the Goetz situation is not as clear cut as that. Which is why it's a good topic to debate. I was trying to think of his name the other day, thanks for reminding me

[xorbie]

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xorbie - he didn't leave the house with the intention of killing those two guys. He only killed after they lunged at him, allegedly.

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There's little point in arguing with someone so dead set on being wrong. Have fun.

edit: Actually, since we agree on everything but the basic facts which you appear to be ignoring, I'll ask a question, just for kicks. If the guy did go out there with the intentions of killing these two, would you still defend his actions?

[Boris]

xorbie you are taking the guy's comments our of context. His talk about killing was only in response the 911 operator saying the criminals were dangerous. The man was simply saying that he could take care of himself in the event he was threatened.

If the man went in to his yard simply to kill the two scumbags then he is guilty of, imo, 2nd degree murder.

[xorbie]

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xorbie you are taking the guy's comments our of context. His talk about killing was only in response the 911 operator saying the criminals were dangerous. The man was simply saying that he could take care of himself in the event he was threatened.

If the man went in to his yard simply to kill the two scumbags then he is guilty of, imo, 2nd degree murder.

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Alright, I'm glad we agree. I'm not sure how you believe that he didn't have the very clear intention of shooting first and asking questions later, but I recognize that I'm not about to change that belief, and there's always the (imo rather minute) chance that I'm wrong.

['Chair]

edit, only listened to audio...didn't read news.

[xorbie]

Chair,

He definitely killed both.

[bmwguy525]

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What if the neighbor that he barely knew had wronged them criminally first? What if the guy actually knew these two guys, and was giving them his old vcr? What if these guys were delivery guys from circuit city who were coming to pick up a defective item?

There are reasons why we have laws against people taking the law into their own hands.

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If you are honestly using this as an argument, you are a complete idiot.