More Bonds

[shemp]

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In the 5 years from age 30-34, on THE ROAD:
Hank averaged 1 HR every 19.76 AB.

In the 5 years from age 35-39, ON THE ROAD:
Hank averaged 1 HR every 14.22 AB

That's a pretty significant power increase in ROAD homers.

Do you really figure moving the fences in 10 feet in the gaps at Fulton County helped give him such a late career power surge while on the ROAD????

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The fact that Connie Mack was bigger than Veterans, Forbes bigger than Three Rivers, Crosley bigger than Riverfront and two new parks filled with expansion teams all of which in the mix in that era might say something about how he did on the ROAD?!?!?!!?!?

Any data on how he did at home after the fences were moved in?

[MuresanForMVP]

So why don't we toss out both those brother's records (Bonds and Aaron), then give the record back to the true (white) owner: Babe Ruth.

[ ] Racist ban
[x] Clayton Bigsby

[RedBean]

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whats up with aaron using illegal substances? i never heard this before. what did he use? when did he admit it?

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He admitted greenies in his book in 1991, so it's been out there for over 15 years.

Ironically, it's been mentioned in SI and other major sports media exactly ZERO times throughout all their pieces on Aaron/Bonds/PEDs....which is probably why you're just now hearing it for the first time.

Additionally, teammate Tom House detailed in his own book that himself and "almost all" the players on those 60's/70's Braves teams used steroids in addition to amphetamines and expiremented with all sorts of stuff to get an edge. He never implicated Aaron, so anything regarding substances other than amphetamines is speculation.

[RedBean]

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So why don't we toss out both those brother's records (Bonds and Aaron), then give the record back to the true (white) owner: Babe Ruth.

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Many of Ruth's peers viewed his accomplishments negatively (probably more so out of envy) because his salary afforded him the luxury of personal trainers and off-season conditioning, while many of his peers headed back home to tend the family farms to make ends meet.

As much as folklore tells you hot dogs and beer, the Bambino did put in the work in the offseason, at least during some of them, at a time when it just wasn't done, and peers even suggested it "unsportsmanlike" to employ specielized weight and conditioning training.

Other peers even suggested he not be allowed to play because he was "part-negro"....snipes of "his wide negro nose" were yesteryear's version of "Bond's big head".

Back then, being black was cheating...and in turn benefited Babe since he never had to face colored pitching.

[MuresanForMVP]

whoa whoa whoa, I wasn't intending on that getting a serious reply. Stop it Red Bean.

[EvanJC]

Redbean you're one of my favorite posters, honestly. At least when dealing w/Bonds stuff [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[RedBean]

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The fact that Connie Mack was bigger than Veterans, Forbes bigger than Three Rivers, Crosley bigger than Riverfront and two new parks filled with expansion teams all of which in the mix in that era might say something about how he did on the ROAD?!?!?!!?!?


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Fair enough, let's see what the numbers say how he did only in the stadiums you mentioned:

In the 5 years from age 30-34, in C-Mack, Crosby, and Forbes:
Hank averaged 1 HR every 18.11 AB. (As compared to the 19.76 in all Road Games in same period)

In the 5 years from age 35-39, ON THE ROAD in C-Mack, Crosby, and Forbes: (all three closed for his 37-39 seasons)
Hank averaged 1 HR every 12.40 AB (as compared to 14.22 in all road games in same period)

In the very parks you cited, we STILL see the same surge in power after age 35. Imagine that!

Granted, moving in the fences and playing in smaller road parks definately exacerbated things, but when we isolate away from them, we STILL see there was an across the board surge in power aside from those factors post age 35.

<u>Let's recap:</u>
1. I noted the surge after age 35.
2. You disputed saying it was result of moving fences in at home park during age 35 season
3. I threw out Home numbers, and noted the same surge in ROAD numbers.
4. You disputed saying the disappearance of old, big parks at beginning of age 37 season has effect on results.
5. I threw out all road numbers from the new stadiums, and yet again, we note the same surge in ROAD numbers in the big, old parks you specifically cited.

What's next? Was the power surge a result of the Hammer switching over to first base and having less to walk between innings? Was it a result of the passing of the Civil Rights Act of 1968? Perhaps the birth of Vanilla Ice that Halloween had an effect?

Surely it had to be SOMETHING right? We can't just accept that Henry had a power surge after age 35 that isn't a lone result of park factors, either road or home?

[RedBean]

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whoa whoa whoa, I wasn't intending on that getting a serious reply. Stop it Red Bean.

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No sweat man, lol... that blurb came from the "copy and paste collection". I think I originally penned that in a usenet argument back in 1996.

[mlagoo]

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Bonds admitted to using steroids. How is this still a question?

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Even the authors of GoS have admitted just last month that Bonds denied taking steroids in his grand jury testimony.


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Oh snap, I didn't know that. My mistake. That is amazing then. My respect and admiration for him just shot way up because now we know that he didn't use steroids.

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so your big argument that he admitted to using steroids wasnt true, and youve decided to fall back on the "well so what, that doesnt mean he didnt use them!" argument?

youre right dude. we'll probably never be able to prove that he didn't use steroids. case closed imo.

edit: btw, knowing very little about the issue prior to reading this article, other than what is told to me by sportscenter/casual fans, this was pretty enlightening. really well put together article. i'm still not 100% convinced that he was drug-free, but i (and everyone except bonds) never will be. its enough for me to know that its possible that he didnt, to sort of accept the fact that, ya know, a great player with a tremendous work ethic broke a record. and maybe thats all there is to it.

[J.R.]

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Then, something happened between 1968 and 1969. Hank turned 35, and as he admitted in his own autobiography, this was when he first used illegal drugs in hopes of assisting his performance.

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What about the lowered the pitcher's mound that same offseason? How does that play into things?