a hand from 1/2 razz

[11ofhearts]

any thoughts on the play of this hand?
seat 8 is drunk or stupid or something, seat 6 seems decent enough
b]Razz[/b] ($1/$2), Ante $0.10, Bring-In $0.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.40 SB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (3.90 SB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls

5th Street - (7.95 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (10.95 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

River - (12.95 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (14.95 BB)

[RustyBrooks]

[Edit: I'm going to leave this here for continuity but ignore this advice, I was looking at the wrong street when I made it]

Looks fine to me. No point raising 5th I don't think. Your odds on 5th are pretty grim, actually, I'd say you have around 20% equity. When it gets to you, there is 10bb in the pot and you'll have to call another on 6th, so you're getting something like 11:2 to see 7th. This is pretty close - you have to expect to win nearly all the time that you hit, so that's the crucial estimation. If you hit you'll be paying 3 to win 12 unless the 3rd guy stays in on 6th in which case more like 3 to win 13 or 14.

Your opponent has a mandatory bet on nearly every street and by 6th the pot is pretty big so calling 6th is fine and calling 7th is fine.

[RustyBrooks]

Post deleted by RustyBrooks

[RustyBrooks]

Ah crap I screwed that up. Your equity on SIXTH is 20%. Your equity on 5th is actually even with the bettor and seat 8s' equity blows. Both you and the other guy with a hand have +ev to bet and keep betting - b oth of you have more than 1/3 equity.

[Praxising]

I don't get it, I'm folding 6th. Why are we not doing that? This guy is jamming, I end up with the worst 7 I can have, he seems to be on a wheel draw, if I make my hand and he does, I still lose....

[*TT*]

if you know seat 8 isn't going anywhere then don't raise 4th, keep the pot size smaller and you wont be forced to make tough decisions on later streets because the pot is large. As played all other streets are fine, pot is large - you cannot fold. Your destiny was determined on 4th street therefore we are nearly always getting to 7th.

[RustyBrooks]

Sklansky on Razz recommends to "never stop raising" 4th in a spot like this. Probably 5th too. Every bet you put in that is called by the 3rd player makes you money, no?

6th, you call because the pot is huge. You have 20% equity and the pot is 11bb. You'll have to call 2 to get to showdown, so you're getting 13:2 if you make your 7 (6.5:1) and 12:1 to draw to it (you'll hit it way more than that). Folding just isn't right. Plus, an awful lot of the time (around 50%) the player showing 235 has paired and is still drawing himself.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Sklansky on Razz recommends to "never stop raising" 4th in a spot like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Page # and quote please.

[RustyBrooks]

Page 127

When the pot is multi-way on 4th street you have a situation where if two players who have caught good cards and one has caught a bad card, both players who have caught good cards have the best of it, even if one hand is slightly better than the other. [skip a few sentences explaining why] Thus, if the player who catches a bad card is so stubborn as to stay in, you should put him in the middle if possible with your raises even if you have the second best hand. In other words, if one player catches a K and you catch a 7 and the third player catches a 6, you should never stop raising until the legal limit has been reached, because you are getting 2:1 odds on each raise, and you are not a 2-to-1 underdog.

[Edit: fixed a few grammar mistakes I made]

He goes on to explain that you would rather that the guy who caught bad folded, and tactics for making him call 2 cold, and advice to avoid getting jammed by other players when you have caught bad.

[Reflux]

Sklansky on Poker p.127
"if one player catches a king and you catch a 7 and the third player catches a 6 you should never stop raising until the legal limit has been reached because you are getting 2-to-1 odds on each raise and you are not a 2-to-1 underdog" --David Sklansky

P.S. I was seat 6 in this hand. It's nice to hear I seem "decent enough." I've only recently started to play razz.