Hand vs. Negreanu on Day 1C

CieloAzor · #1 08-12-2006, 03:45 AM

I showed up at Negreanu's table with about 25 minutes left on Day 1C, just in time to see his 45s make a straight and bust some guy that overplayed JJ. The table is whining that Negreanu raises EVERY pot. The follow hand occurs:

Blinds 200/400, Ante 50
Button ~35k
Hero (SB) 22k
Negreanu (BB) ~85k

Folds around to button who raises to 1500. Button is an older guy who was complaining about Negreanu pounding on him, so my first impression is that he's a bit weak. I call with Qd8d and Negreanu calls as well.

Flop is Qs5h5s. I check, Negreanu checks, button bets 2k. I'm pretty sure I have the best hand...I flat call. I'm expecting Negreanu to fold now but he raises to 5k! Button agonizes for a minute and folds. What now?

So I'm out of position against a great player who could have just about anything. I'm not convinced I'm beat yet, but it's tough to see how I can get through the hand. What's the plan?

tubasteve · #2 08-12-2006, 04:03 AM

That's what you get for playing Q8s when you are OOP and DN has played almost every pot.

dcredskins24 · #3 08-12-2006, 04:45 AM

well if daniel is playing every pot he could have anything. So he could have a few hands that beat you. With no other information do you really want to risk your entire stack with Q8?

Fold.

Bryn · #4 08-12-2006, 07:55 AM

I'm only a fish who plays in $5 dollar tournaments and only dreams of playing in the world series but I have to ask...

Why are you playing Q8s in this situation? DN is playing aggressive and the rest of the table are getting fed up and playing back at him. Your big hands seem likley to be payed off so why not wait for one?

Secondly, why only the check/call on the flop? Your hand doesn't seem strong enougth to full slow play with another player still to act, especially one as good as DN. Why not check raise and hope the old guy pays you off and DN goes away? DN would surly only call a check raise (from a player who he presumably has no reads on) if he has you beat. As played DN could have anything, no one has shown any strength so he could think he can have the pot. The old guy was probably just continuation betting with unpaired cards, you could have called with resonable pot odds on a spade draw, or have two high cards/low pocket pair that your not willing to let go after a blatent continuation bet from a weak player.

Gary07 · #5 08-12-2006, 08:06 AM

I believe that if you are going to play this hand at all, you need to bet the flop. If you get any kind of action I would let it go, saving your chips. It's the cheapest way to play it and gives you the easiest decision when the action gets back around. Many people bet out with trips when there is a fd on the board, so it would be hard for DN and the button to put you on just a queen, but if anyone could do it, it would be him.

billyjex · #6 08-12-2006, 09:12 AM

preflop is sooooo bad here

Foucault · #7 08-12-2006, 09:14 AM

Fold pre-flop. I'm all for playing pots against weak players, but you'll be in position against him 90% of the time, so why go out of your way to play back at him the 10% of the time that you aren't (and invite a dangerous player to come in behind you).

I don't know what to tell you know. Daniel can be nearly certain that Button doesn't have a 5 and pretty sure you don't have one either, whereas he knows you know he could have anything. If you don't fold now, then I think you have to be prepared to call him down all the way, because this really is a good situation for him to fire three barrels at you.

durrrr · #8 08-12-2006, 09:31 AM

pf is fine... fold flop (to dn's raise).

betgo · #9 08-12-2006, 09:59 AM

I think Negreanu is probably making a play on the flop. This is why he plays every hand. It is very difficult for anyone not to fold without atleast trips in the situation. I am a little suspicious Negreanu really has anything, as I think he might flat call with trips.

That being said, you don't beat anything but a bluff here, so you maybe have to fold.

I would probably flat call and check the turn. If Negreanu bets, either fold, call, or checkraise, depending on your read.

Supwithbates · #10 08-12-2006, 10:17 AM

negreanu could certainly raise here with a big pot and 2 suited cards after observing a cbet and a flatcall. If he has trips, he wants to know if his opponent does as well, and he also wants to make the draws pay.
Though when I think about it, raising to 5k after a 2k bet and 2k call seems to be giving odds that beg him to call, so I don't know.