Non-interesting observed hand. Please help me. Any street correct?

Allday Everyday · #1 05-17-2007, 08:45 AM

So I am playing some 5/10 FR online with another 2+2er sweating me. We observe this hand. Not that interesting, but it has got me thinking. At the time I thought he played every street incorrectly. I still do, but now I'm not so sure. Please help me find the truth.

5/10 Online. 8 handed.
Preflop: Observed is H/J with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Observed calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 2 folds, Observed calls.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Observed checks, Button bets, Observed calls.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Observed checks, Button bets, Observed raises, Button calls.

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Observed bets...

What of his turn and river play? Any merit there? The other 2+2er and I are debating this.

James. · #2 05-17-2007, 09:12 AM

this crap is so prevalent in the online games today.

helps explain why i rarely fold a pair or decent Ahigh anymore.

Harv72b · #3 05-17-2007, 09:48 AM

The turn & river aren't terrible, but when he calls the turn c/r I think he has enough to call the river bet, too.

Preflop makes baby jeebus cry.

Ricks · #4 05-17-2007, 11:01 AM

Two off the button with A7o is a raise for me pf in most situations. Folding would be the only other option.

I think that the turn play has some merit against an opponent that is capable of folding. He has outs and a turn c/r has a good chance of getting a better ace to fold. In this case it may be more difficult since Button would then have picked up a GS. On the flip side, I think that James is correct, people aren't buying the turn c/r when the 3 flush hits the board any more.

He has committed himself to bet the river since he only needs button to fold about 12% of the time. I agree with Harv though, he will get looked up here quite often.

Budget Boy · #5 05-17-2007, 02:57 PM

Preflop: Calling is by far the worst option. I still fold this here, in the cutoff I would raise.

Flop: Bad call, this is a small pot and not worth it.

Turn: I like a turn donk better than cr, you take the initiative with 1 less bet. If you get raised that hand was going to (at least) call your cr anyway.

River: check/fold unimproved

Niediam · #6 05-17-2007, 03:41 PM

As played I like the turn play a lot these days against good players (thanks Stox book!).

River really depends on the opponent.

Bob T. · #7 05-17-2007, 04:18 PM

I think the preflop limp sucks. But afterwards, I like it, give yourself the buttons hand. For fun, let's pretend you have the Ace of diamonds, and a spade queen or jack. When you get checkraised on the turn, you call hoping to make your one card flush, but when the HG bets again on the river, do you really want to call this down.

Allday Everyday · #8 05-17-2007, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As played I like the turn play a lot these days against good players (thanks Stox book!).

[/ QUOTE ]
The button was me, so not sure if I qualify. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm definately capable of laying down a hand though. I happened to have top pair KQ (no [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) so it was an easy calldown. Without such a hand I would have been put to the test I suppose.

I haven't got this book yet. I should really get onto that. I take it you mean check-raising the turn with a four to a flush? I think this move would be much better with two in the hand, two on the board rather than one in the hand, three on the board. It could seem more obvious this way, also, there is a greater chance the villain will have a draw to a big hand himself. So there seems less chance of the semi-bluff taking it down on the turn IMO.

I believe I would have called down with less than top pair here. But how much less I'm not sure...

Allday Everyday · #9 05-17-2007, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn & river aren't terrible, but when he calls the turn c/r I think he has enough to call the river bet, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is one of the things I was wondering about. Could the way the hand has been played and the board make his river bet correct?

Harv72b · #10 05-17-2007, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the things I was wondering about. Could the way the hand has been played and the board make his river bet correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's risking 1 BB to win about 6.5, assuming that he instamucks whenever you raise the river. So he has to get you to lay down a better hand/somehow have the best hand 15% of the time to make his river bet correct, which I really don't think is going to be the case. Yeah, it's probably the only way he's going to win the pot but it's also probably spewing.

Btw, nh. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]