qq hand

[baronzeus]

If this was heads up, raising and calling a 3bet is better than just calling. Since we have the retard to act behind us, I think it's an easy call. Unless BB is very very stupid he will never 3bet a worse hand and there is only one better hand. I also think he peels the flop with 66.

range that caps there: 66 44 22 9 comboes. 53s 4 combos.


I do not think capping the turn there with 66 44 or 22 is overplaying very much at all.

[Surf]

[ QUOTE ]


Things that should make the BB pause before capping the turn. Hero sraised preflop and then smoothcalled the flop in PERFECT position to face the field with 2 cold- and then three bet the turn. Anyone who has the slightest clue in poker whould know that this screams MONSTER!!!! If villan is capping the turn with 22 or 44 i think he is actually already overplaying his hand at this point.
As for the SB- players with his stats will often throw in 1 bet on the river with a ubsted A high draw. The pots enourmous and they are habitually addicted to the call button.

"1) Very few tags defend 53o in the BB, even to that action. 53o is a terrible hand. While he *may* defend it, 53s is the more likely candidate, of which there are only 4 combinations."

I rarely bother guessing at hand ranges from a BB defense in multiway pots- some people will play any two- i pay far far more attention to the fact that he really really likes his hand, even after the hero has made it clear that he really really likes his hand.
Also if villan has 22 and 44- then he still has to be afraid of hero having 44, 66, QQ, again meaning he has to way overplay his hand to get to this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Waiting for the turn with a 1pair hand in an 11sb pot is by no means uncommon, considering giving the first player behind 6:1 and everyone else even better odds means raising the flop isn't going to do much to protect your hand.

It's questionable how well villain actually reads hands, but is he going to put an EP isolator on 66/44? No. He's only afraid of QQ, and like i said before, most players are good enough to figure out what beats them but not good enough to slow down because there's 1 possible hand out there that beat them, even if it's the only hand that would play that way.

I know this is ironic because there is only 1 hand villain could have that beats us, but there are a few that he would realistically play the same way - if you are in villain's shoes and get 3bet on the turn do you think "damn, he has QQ" and call 66? In the heat of battle most of us would think "there's no way he's got 35, and if he's got QQ god bless 'em" - and cap it.

I'm not saying a river raise is right, i'm saying these are things to consider when deciding whether or not to raise the river - ignoring preflop action b/c it's difficult to range villain, and the fact that the straight that beats us is an obscure 2gapper, is bad poker imo.

Surf

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
f this was heads up, raising and calling a 3bet is better than just calling. Since we have the retard to act behind us, I think it's an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes yes yes.

[Trix]

I´d just call too HU.

I dont think you can rule out 53o 100%, even if you discount it 90%, it´s still 1.2 combination you need to add.
Personally I´ll weigh it more than that.

I think 53 will play like it did in this hand very often, except for 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which very often will get more aggro, so giving it 4 combinations seems fair.

I think the sets will get more aggro on the flop very often and also think they sometimes wont cap the turn.
In the end you wont have to discount them more than enough to make it less than 2:1 that you are good on the river as it´s pretty much allways 2 more bets when you lose and one more when you win.
Since I weighed the 53 at 4 combinations, that means that if the sets are discounted to less than 8, then it´s a call.
If you think he only play 53s and also think he allways play 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] harder, which is the BEST case scenario for our hand, then that is 3 combinations, which means that if you should discount the sets more than one third, then it´s still a call and I think you should.

All this is ignoring the player behind. When he is considered aswell, then it´s an easy call.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
f this was heads up, raising and calling a 3bet is better than just calling. Since we have the retard to act behind us, I think it's an easy call.

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yes yes yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. Spewmonkeys.

-DeathDonkey

[Our House]

OK folks, I was the HERO in this hand. Victor was watching one of my videos. This was one of 3 hands we discussed. I raised the river and he told me it was a bad play. We disagreed back and forth, so he posted it.


One question before results about what SB and BB did:

Would anyone else feel like dick after only calling the river and winning?

[helpmeout]

for starters 53s is going to raise the flop, I would its 4way he has good equity, he should raise 44 and 22 as well

i definately put at least 2 bets in and expect to win

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
for starters 53s is going to raise the flop, I would its 4way he has good equity, he should raise 44 and 22 as well

i definately put at least 2 bets in and expect to win

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to rethink your game if your raising 35 (not of spades) here.
1. Your draw is beautifully hidden- one of the cards that helps you is an action card (the A) and you should be able to get multiple bets in when it comes, and the other card is inconspicous so you will get paid off when it comes.
2. There is a flush draw on board- you don't have 8 full outs, usually its like 7. Your equity edge isn't very large, but you want to gain 10% of 4 sbs when you could gain 75% of 4 BBs when you hit?
3. You have perfect position to c/r the field- with a bet coming from either the preflop riaser or the flop better you can trap up to 2 players inbetween with a HUGE equity advantage, not a small, for the bigger bet no less.
4. You aren't cleaning up any outs, and you aren't likely to turn your 53 into a winner UI, so you aren't gaining anything in the realm of side benefits either.

[tolbiny]

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Would anyone else feel like dick after only calling the river and winning?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you feel like a retard when you raise and he three bets you aswell? Or do you just chalk that up to "i have a set, i should lose a lot when i lose"?

[mmcd]

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Would anyone else feel like dick after only calling the river and winning?


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Obviously this depends on whether the sb overcalls.