WTF? Pujols could have been pinch hit for Rowand

[Benholio]

Furthermore, it wasn't exactly dumb luck that led to Pujols being the last position player on the bench. In the interviews, LaRussa talks about the lineup changes leading up to that point as if they were out of his control.

Hello! How about some planning?

[Gregatron]

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Greg,

There's no defense for what TLR did last night in this situation.

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I won't dispute this. And I don't have a problem with criticism of La Russa, or any other expert's decision. What bugs me is not saying something like, "There's no defense for what TLR did last night in this situation." It's saying "OMG, La Russa is a moran!"

First, my baseball knowledge is minuscule compared to many posters here. That said, my point was not to dispute what may well have been a mistake by La Russa. It probably was a mistake, I agree. My pet theory is that he has other pressures involving not seeming like he is trying top play favorites. Those sort of political considerations come up in All Star games. Tactically, dumb move. I agree. But in the All Star game winning is not the only concern.

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I don't recall any one saying they could do a better job than La Russa; they are simply stating that he is a bad manager.

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Valid point. I think I saw a little red there.

I think I got upset as a Cards fan who is still feeling the high of a WS win -- I like to defend my guy. Yeah, he does some [censored] that confuses the hell out of me sometimes, and this season is not going well.

Sorry if I got a little out of line. I wasn't going after anyone individually, just a general smugness that rubs me the wrong way sometimes. And even though it pisses me off when anyone does most of the time it I have to admit I only said something as a Cardinals fan. I'm not a big fan of personal attacks on people (like bringing up drinking issues when we lost Josh Hancock this year -- that was just being an ass). Whatever.

EDIT to add: I didn't want to double post, and I'm not big on starting new threads, but I found this article interesting.

[vhawk01]

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La Russa has forgotten more about baseball than most of you people will ever know.

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this means he is good?

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Touche.

My point is that I get annoyed by people that think they know more about coaching than coaches, playing than players, etc.

To be fair, there are some instances where this is obvious. Joe Morgan for example, and all his nonsense about people being "due." That is obviously BS and he deserves to be ridiculed for it.

But then there is the air of self righteous indignation based in ignorance. It drives me nuts. Most of the people on this board are intelligent enough to understand that there are a few things experts do that are simply over their heads, if they would stop and think.

Think of it this way -- let's say a fishy player you guys win money in poker against were to stand over your should and watch you play hold em: You are EP+2 at a full ring table and have A3o. EP raises, fold, and you fold. the fish goes apesh!t "ZOMG YOU FOLDED A ACE YOU N000000B!!!!!111" That is what people on this board do in regards to sports many times.

I appreciate much of the thoughtful analysis, and humorous observations ont his board. I like to discuss things with other sports fans in an intelligent manner. But this "I know more than these experts ZOMG I should coach the _______________" attitude is censored annoying. That is why they have call in sports talk radio.

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Your analogy works better if we 5-bet all-in A3o or something, rather than muck it. DUCY?

EDIT: Oh and then river a wheel.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Furthermore, it wasn't exactly dumb luck that led to Pujols being the last position player on the bench. In the interviews, LaRussa talks about the lineup changes leading up to that point as if they were out of his control.

Hello! How about some planning?

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hey man he only had a 32 man roster

[legend42]

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To only tie the game, Pujols would need to walk, which I feel was unlikely, even though K-Rod had walked a couple - he was going to groove some fastballs.

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How do you know that?

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He could have also gotten an infield hit (doubtful), hit a ground ball that someone bobbled (maybe, but still not as likely as the out or base hit scenario), or hit a single so hard to an outfielder that Lee would not be able to score from 2nd.

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Wild pitch, passed ball, HBP, balk, catcher's interference...

But of course I agree with your point that the game was very unlikely to go to extras, and Pujols should have batted (probably even for D. Lee before Rowand). But I haven't heard anyone argue otherwise.

[prohornblower]

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c) He can't be afraid to use his last hitter in that spot. It would have been very unlikely that the game would have been tied after the ninth inning. The most likely scenarios were that Pujols could have made an out and ended the game, or gotten a base hit and won the game - Lee would have certainly scored from 2nd, as he would've been running on contact.

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This occured to me earlier today and obviously I agree that it is a good point. However, I had like 12 hours to realize the fact that for the game to end 9 exactly tied with Pujols up and 2 outs and bases loaded was a slim chance. If you simulate the situation a million times, I think over 900,000 times Pujols is the last batter of the game, win or lose.

[FoldYourLife]

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I have never seen Tony LaRussa, normally an excellent manager

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lololol

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I didn't know there was so much hate so Tony LaRussa on here. Obviously he was awful last night, but he has had an excellent career. I can remember a few very questionable moves in the last couple of years with the Cards, but that's about it.

So does everyone now think that Joe Torre is a piss poor manager with some questionable decisions recently? Is Larry Brown a terrible coach?

[legend42]

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This occured to me earlier today and obviously I agree that it is a good point. However, I had like 12 hours to realize the fact

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I don't know why it would take 12 hours for you to relaize that but regardless, don't you think an experienced major league manager should realize it at the time? It's not *that* uncommon a situation.

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that for the game to end 9 exactly tied with Pujols up and 2 outs and bases loaded was a slim chance. If you simulate the situation a million times, I think over 900,000 times Pujols is the last batter of the game, win or lose.

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Agreed- and even in the unlikely scenario that the game does go to extras, he's not that screwed. I still haven't heard anyone defend the decision from a winning the game standpoint. I think it's easily more egregious than, say, Little leaving in Pedro. There must be some kind of personal, political, and/or metagame reason behind it.

[Gregatron]

Local news here in STL is questioning the relationship between Pujols and La Russa now.

I don't like seeing this very much.

[slothinator]

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I have never seen Tony LaRussa, normally an excellent manager

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lololol

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I didn't know there was so much hate so Tony LaRussa on here. Obviously he was awful last night, but he has had an excellent career. I can remember a few very questionable moves in the last couple of years with the Cards, but that's about it.

So does everyone now think that Joe Torre is a piss poor manager with some questionable decisions recently? Is Larry Brown a terrible coach?

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Torre - No. The Yankees have been killed by injuries this year, especially in the rotation. Torre can make all the good decisions he wants, but he can't make bad pitchers throw CGSHO's.

Brown - Yes. He's always been a good X&O guy and strategist as a coach. However, he has the personality of warm wet cardboard and has pissed off players, general managers, and owners at every stop he's made. He refuses to alter his system to fit his players, instead trying to force players into a system. After he gets canned, he pisses and moans that nobody would cooperate with him, when he is the unflexible prick at the center of the problem. He's had problems with people at every stop he's made; maybe the problem isn't them, hey Larry?