Crazy Question about Omnipotence

[mickeyg13]

[ QUOTE ]
Can God make 2 plus 2 equal 5?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't everyone know that 2+2=5 for all sufficiently large values of 2?

[Lestat]

God cannot be both omnipotent and omnisentient. He just can't.

If God is omnisentient, then He already knows that Sam will be fatally hit by a bus tomorrow at 2PM.

If God is omnipotent, then He should have the power to save Sam. But how is this possible?

Btw- I consider this to be different than the, "Can God create a rock so heavy He can't lift it", or, "Can God create a square circle". The bus incident is not meant to be a mockery of theistic logic. It's a real event.

[tame_deuces]

Well, if god is omnipotent isn't it a given that he already knows everything that _can_ happen and also has the power to change it? Which would make omnisentience rather moot?

[madnak]

I used to think about this on a regular basis, but I always came to the same conclusions.

First, even if God supersedes logic, I don't. Logic is the best tool I have for interpreting the world around me. (It's possible that faith or emotion are the most reliable tools for some people, but not for me. My emotions are unreliable and conflicted, and I have only experienced faith as an emotion.)

Second, if God exists and if God created us, it seems that he granted us the ability to reason and wants us to use it. This is a circular argument, but I have few expressive alternatives. Maybe I'm too trusting, but here's reason, it "feels right," nothing else "feels right," I'm using reason.

As a result, I'll assume that logic holds true on general principle, and for my own sanity. If logic refutes a conception of God, then I will consider that conception of God an impossibility and proceed accordingly.

[madnak]

Oh yeah, this also refutes omnibenevolence because if God is truly benevolent he can prevent all suffering without any of the necessary consequences. For example, the logical argument "evil exists because free will exists" is easily transcended by a truly omnipotent God. Such a God could grant free will without evil.

(I think there are numerous other problems with that arguments, I'm just using it for the sake of an example. The point is that there is no justifiction for suffering, because God transcends justification. God can have justice and mercy at the same time, if he transcends reason.)

[pokervintage]

[ QUOTE ]
If God is omnisentient, then He already knows that Sam will be fatally hit by a bus tomorrow at 2PM.

[/ QUOTE ]

No he will not know this. He will only know the precise probability that Sam will be fatally hit by the Bus. When it comes to prediction that is all omniscience can do. But if he is also omnipotent, why then he can ensure that the Bus hits Sam.

pokervintage

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't everyone know that 2+2=5 for all sufficiently large values of 2?


[/ QUOTE ] I'll bite on this one. I don't have a math background, but any two sufficiantly large to make two plus two equal five would no longer be two.

But of course it wasn't my point to bicker. Can God make 2 plus 2 equal 6?

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't everyone know that 2+2=5 for all sufficiently large values of 2?


[/ QUOTE ] I'll bite on this one. I don't have a math background, but any two sufficiantly large to make two plus two equal five would no longer be two.

But of course it wasn't my point to bicker. Can God make 2 plus 2 equal 6?

[/ QUOTE ]

What if it's 2.999... + 2.999...? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
What if it's 2.999... + 2.999...?



[/ QUOTE ]Madnak, my definition of two is different from yours. I don't see how 2.999 . . . is called two. Do mathemeticians see things differently than I? If so, put me out of my misery and teach me something, because right now, I'm not getting it.

edit - I can see how 2.999 . . . is called 3 but not two. I think you are delusional.

[madnak]

Just making a joke about an old thread.

Edit - I think mickey's also joking.