Thread for Kaj on topic of human values

[foal]

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And let's note something else. You can keep calling it "my principle" like you're some kind of philosophical genius who came up with it, but you're just another overeducated underthinking hack if you won't admit "your" principle is an archetype that has been around for thousands of years in very close form to the way you state it. If you want to assert you made some minor tweakings that are different, then fine, call it "Golden Rule Kaj variation" or something. But enough with all this obtuse refusing to define and name things.

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If you think he's claiming philosophical credit for inventing a new idea, then you are comprehending poorly.

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And again, if most men agree with "your" principle, whether on a transactional or moral basis, doesn't that indicate such a principle, at some minimal level, is inherent in man? How can it be otherwise?

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His "principle" is in fact something nearly everyone follows. It's purely a matter of pragmatism. That is, wanting behaviors we don't like to be discouraged or prevented. How strongly we feel about it and how much force we'd accept being used to stop it vary in accordance with how much we dislike the action. When I say dislike the action, I should make a distinction between disliking an action "type" and disliking an action "token". A token being a particular instance of an action and a type being that action in general. One example would be someone check raising you on the river in a poker game. You may dislike it at that particular moment, but you wont necessarily think "I don't want to play in a game where people can check raise". So you dislike it as a token, but not as a type. I believe this principle of Kaj's you are talking about applies mainly to actions we dislike as types rather than as tokens. As for the important question of what action types people will dislike, it will vary from person to person arbitrarily or based on their genes and personal history. Even if you say this principle is somewhat inherent, all we've arrived at is that people tend to act with a degree of pragmatism toward their preferences. Hardly an astonishing conclusion.