Stars $11r Hand: QQ UTG vs. BB

[thetman]

Calling him down seems like the correct play more often than not.

[TyFuji]

As played, calling the flop is perfect vs. the LAG since it allows the 22-JJ part of his range to pay us off. It's highly unlikley that he would raise with a King there, unless you and villain have some history.

From villain's perspective, you might have a weaker pair and he will bet into you with anything, especially if the turn goes check/check.

The ace is obviously a [censored] card since he could have made the flop c/r with an AQ or AJ type hand, but considering your 2-1 odds I think kramer's analysis is correct. I think you win this pot half the time (he has 22-JJ), making a call correct.

[MLG]

you're toast. fold.

typical 10r guy isnt jamming his 88 here when an a turns...because he isnt thinking that guy could never have an A, he is thinking, [censored] that's an A, its a big card and a bad one for me.

[Caribbean Steve]

Well said.. I was thinking the same.... Any normal person would call the post flop and bet the turn! why bet u much to put a person to a test and in esscence force him a fold..

I would call in this spot, there's two kings on board unlikey he has one

[Shorty35]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses. I'll review and comment in a bit but here's the action after his check-raise:

I call.

Turn is A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He pushes (and has me slightly covered) about t8500 into the t9400 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm making the heroic call here. Ax is not really in his range given his flop action (unless he has A6). I also would think he would check if he hit his A, but I guess that is making too many assumptions about his level of play.

IMO, he either has Kx or 22-JJ, and I think we're winning more than ~33% of the time here, so I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with Kramer; well more than 33% of the time Villan is donking his chips to you.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really at a lost on this hand. The BB had been pretty loose seeing about a little over a quarter of the flops.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP3 (t29845)
CO (t30050)
Button (t11735)
SB (t3135)
BB (t13300)
UTG (t14065)
Hero (t13270)
MP1 (t11225)
MP2 (t11125)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, BB calls t800.

Flop: (t2200) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t3600</font>, Hero ???

I certainly think I've got the best hand on the flop, at least before the check-raise. I made a small bet on the flop for value thinking a smaller pair would call me. I also thought that it could be seen as weak and get played back on. So I wasn't completely surprised when he raised. I'm just not sure what my line is here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the replies but, given the read, I check this flop and then call down, unless the pattern of betting suggests he has trips or a boat.

Given the way you've played the hand, which I wouldn't have to the stones to do without a hand that could withstand very heavy action, if I don't fold here, which I don't always, then I'm either very annoyed with myself if I bust, or feel somewhat guilty if I don't.

[Shorty35]

[ QUOTE ]
you're toast. fold.

typical 10r guy isnt jamming his 88 here when an a turns...because he isnt thinking that guy could never have an A, he is thinking, [censored] that's an A, its a big card and a bad one for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont think that more than 33% of the time its actually someone with two cards (probably a pair) who is thinking "I just showed strength on two streets, no way he can call my power poker moves without a K"?

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses. I'll review and comment in a bit but here's the action after his check-raise:

I call.

Turn is A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He pushes (and has me slightly covered) about t8500 into the t9400 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me weak/tight but I fold here.

I understand Kramer's point. I haven't played enough MTTs, and don't keep good enough score, to get a sense of how often players are how bad, but from time to time someone with a big stack, deep in a reasonably large buy-in does something so stupid it makes me want to call every bet for a week.

However, my level of thinking, given my experience, is to work on the assumption that villains don't do anything sunstantially more stupid than I would do and, as villain, pushing here, given the odds I'm laying hero, and the action, without a pair of fives, an ace or a king, seems incredibly stupid.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you're toast. fold.

typical 10r guy isnt jamming his 88 here when an a turns...because he isnt thinking that guy could never have an A, he is thinking, [censored] that's an A, its a big card and a bad one for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

you dont think that more than 33% of the time its actually someone with two cards (probably a pair) who is thinking "I just showed strength on two streets, no way he can call my power poker moves without a K"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I possibly lose a lot of value because I don't think this enough, maybe. I would call if the turn wasn't an ace, certainly. But, as I said, this presumes that villain is incredibly stupid and doesn't understand pot odds. Then again, this is the second hour of the $10r on Stars...

[Nez477]

[ QUOTE ]
you're toast. fold.

typical 10r guy isnt jamming his 88 here when an a turns...because he isnt thinking that guy could never have an A, he is thinking, [censored] that's an A, its a big card and a bad one for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the ONLY reason for folding, but not 100% of the players in a 10R are level I thinkers.

Brad