Another multiway stud/8 hand

[Alchemist]

All the Villains in the hand are very loose, playing over half their hands dealt. Seat 7 is especially bad and goes berserk if he has a big pair on 3rd.

I don't know if I have a raise on 5th, but I do on 6th I think. Probably even the river as played.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.20 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.60 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (8.60 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

River - (12.60 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (16.60 BB - $33.20)

[RustyBrooks]

When considering whether to bet, ask what your goal is. Are you trying to get more money in the pot? Or do you want to limit the field? In this case I think you want to drop some low draws. There are 2 players with potential low draws, and if you can get one or two of them out your equity goes up considerably. Unfortunately if the bettor on 5th is one of them he's not going any where, probably. And the other guy as already called a bet. So I don't think you have any chance of getting a low draw to fold, even if they would anyway.

I'm actually a little curious what your equity is on 6th vs some likely hands. All 3 of your opponents have a pair on board, although for most of htem it's more likely they have 2 pair than trips, except Seat 5 who may have started with a 7 down. Given the relatively placid action on the table I don't think Seat 7 has trips or 67 for a straight, and I don't think Seat 4 has trips. Seat 5, well, who knows. Kind of looks like a maid low and a pair, or a low draw + pair, maybe a flush draw or something. The fact that he didn't raise 6th might just mean he wants 1/2 of 2 peoples dead money more than forcing you out.

I don't have enough experience in hand reading or estimating your equity there but I don't think I like a raise on 6th.

7th, who knows. Maybe Seat 5 just made a low, maybe he made a flush, maybe trip 7s or a full house, maybe just aces up or something. It is encouraging that no one else raised, I think any hand you have to be afraid of would probably have put in a raise.

[Nybbles_64]

Just a beginner (an overly aggressive one at that) - but Seat 5 is the only low here, so pushing out high hands seems like a good idea(?). I would raise 5th straight to cause the AKK to rethink things. (Thats my guess on his hand becuase of the completing the bet, but not jamming 4th.) Seat 7 just seems to have a very rough draw to a 8 or two pair on 6th.

I'll leave the great analysis to the experts though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

--- It seems Rusty is faster than me too [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Doubletabling (forces me to play better hands than I have playing..) plus 'forumming' it is tough =\

[RustyBrooks]

Well, pushing out the high hands is nice in theory but I don't think any of them fold anything you'd want them to (a better hand, 2 bigger pair, a flush draw) and I do think they'd fold with anything you want them to put more money in with (1 pair, gutshot, pair and a silly low draw, etc)

[Craggoo]

This is based on what OP said. If you think you should have raised on 5th, what has changed on 6th or the river that makes you think a raise is even better in those spots? If you arent going to raise trip 4's on 5th because you think the other guy has trip 7's+, then it makes no sense to raise on 6th or the river. Does this make sense?

[djk123]

reraise 3rd. 4th-5th. 6th plssssssssssssss raise. and to the poster above me, you're wrong. on 6th street, there's no reason for seat 5 to not raise trip 7s. thus it's quite likely that we have the best hand plus no one is going to fold which = lots of bets

[Craggoo]

[ QUOTE ]
reraise 3rd. 4th-5th. 6th plssssssssssssss raise. and to the poster above me, you're wrong. on 6th street, there's no reason for seat 5 to not raise trip 7s. thus it's quite likely that we have the best hand plus no one is going to fold which = lots of bets

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you misunderstood me. I was asking OP what has changed on 6th or 7th street that makes it better to raise in those spots.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you misunderstood me. I was asking OP what has changed on 6th or 7th street that makes it better to raise in those spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

7A7 will bet out here with trip Sevens as well as a host of other hands, so I don't feel that confident raising just then. However on 6th, once the pair of Jacks is first to act, he doesn't raise, which means he probably doesn't have a set and that my set of 4s is good for high (and unlikely to be facing trip Jacks).

[djk123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
reraise 3rd. 4th-5th. 6th plssssssssssssss raise. and to the poster above me, you're wrong. on 6th street, there's no reason for seat 5 to not raise trip 7s. thus it's quite likely that we have the best hand plus no one is going to fold which = lots of bets

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you misunderstood me. I was asking OP what has changed on 6th or 7th street that makes it better to raise in those spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

? I understood you perfectly. What changed on 6th is that he stopped being the aggressor. If he had trip 7s, he would have most likely continued to be the aggressor and raise 6th street. The fact that he just called leads me to believe that he does not have trip 7s. Thus, we most likely have the best hand and should raise.

[Andy B]

I'd probably raise on the backside on third street, but the call is fine too. I would strongly consider raising fifth. The bettor might have trips, but he might also have a four-card low or maybe two pair, in which case you're in excellent shape, and I think you're a pretty solid favorite over his range. Definitely raise sixth. The bettor probably has two pair at most. 77 didn't raise, so he shouldn't have trips. You do. Get your money in there. The river is probably worth raising as well.